[MD] The Mythos-Logos issue.

[skutvik at online.no]

Good Old Joe

3 July you wrote:

> Hi Bo and all, Your example of an intellectual latch not holding is
> intriguing!  I do not see that evolution is under the control of an
> individual.  When hysteria or patriotism necessarily overpowers an
> intellectual formation I don¹t view that as failing intellect so much
> as I view it as a DQ level of self-preservation supplanting a SQ static
> intellectual latch of military order.  ...... 

Intriguing or not, this about latches holding or not holding is straight  
from the MOQ "catechism" and nothing I invented  and is so much 
better an explanation than "hysteria and/or patriotism" for the social 
latching. Biological self-preservation is the next still safer latch if  the 
social fails, and you bet ".... the individual in an emergency is not held 
accountable". Rationality is the first to go, but also social etiquette may 
fail (on board the Titanic not all let women and children enter the 
lifeboats before themselves). Why invent the outlandish "DQ 
individual"? There is no such entity in the MOQ. Sure, anyone living in 
an intellectual culture will regain that stature very quickly. See USA 
after Sep.11 did not go all "ape" - killing them and dragging bodies 
after trucks in the streets .. etc -. when terrorists were captured, but 
jailed them and even perfunctory spoke about fair trials.         

> The DQ individual in an emergency is not held accountable for an SQ
> intellectual formulation. He/she is able to use a DQ intellectual
> spontaneity and is rewarded for heroism. The soldier never loses the DQ
> intellectual level and can heroically manage the situation in the best
> possible way given the circumstances and is so rewarded for bravery in
> maintaining order, and not punished for the chaos of murder.   Wartime
> patriotism is still an intellectual or emotional capacity rather than a
> social cause.  

Wartime patriotism - or patriotism generally - is the most plain social 
pattern there is but in actual combat the circumstances can be 
infinitely complicated, however, very generally it's about killing the 
enemy and the one who does that best is rewarded, while killing in 
peacetime is a crime. Don't turn the beauty of the MOQ into into some 
ugly and complicated SOM-ish thing, with the use of Q terms.  

> Social causes frequently produce hysterical behavior, and I am
> suspicious of a social level in evolution.

You give the MOQ a bad reputation Joe.

Bodvar

















> Joe  
> 
> <snip>
> > Another related enigma is  how murder brings medals in
> > war, but is a crime in times of peace. This enigma is
> > intellect-as-SOM created, claiming human rights worth, freedom yet,
> > having to watch that all these abandoned if/when the bells toll.
> > It's been a monster platypus for as long as intellect has been in
> > the driver's seat. The MOQ explains this as when the intellectual
> > latch don't hold we slip down to the much stronger social latch
> > where "our cause" takes over and where no qualms exist by killing
> > the enemy. But this also requires the SOM-intellect, the
> > Mind-intellect has zero explanatory power
> 
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