[MD] The Mythos-Logos issue.

[Mary]

I told Chris the other night that Phædrus spent his entire life pursuing a
ghost. That was true. The ghost he pursued was the ghost that underlies all
of technology, all of modern science, all of Western thought. It was the
ghost of rationality itself. I told Chris that he found the ghost and that
when he found it he thrashed it good. I think in a figurative sense that is
true. The things I hope to bring to light as we go along are some of the
things he uncovered. Now the times are such that others may at last find
them of value. No one then would see the ghost that Phædrus pursued, but I
think now that more and more people see it, or get glimpses of it in bad
moments, a ghost which calls itself rationality but whose appearance is that
of incoherence and meaninglessness, which causes the most normal of everyday
acts to seem slightly mad because of their irrelevance to anything else.
This is the ghost of normal everyday assumptions which declares that the
ultimate purpose of life, which is to keep alive, is impossible, but that
this is the ultimate purpose of life anyway, so that great minds struggle to
cure diseases so that people may live longer, but only madmen ask why. One
lives longer in order that he may live longer. There is no other purpose.
That is what the ghost says.
-ZMM Chapter 7

But to tear down a factory or to revolt against a government or to avoid
repair of a motorcycle because it is a system is to attack effects rather
than causes; and as long as the attack is upon effects only, no change is
possible. The true system, the real system, is our present construction of
systematic thought itself, rationality itself, and if a factory is torn down
but the rationality which produced it is left standing, then that
rationality will simply produce another factory.
- ZMM Chapter 8

Mary

- The most important thing you will ever make is a realization.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org [mailto:moq_discuss-
> bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Andre Broersen
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 7:59 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] The Mythos-Logos issue.
> 
> Mary to Ian:
> 
> Yes, SOM is what caused Pirsig to suffer a breakdown.
> 
> Andre:
> No! SOM does not 'cause' anything Mary. And calling Phaedrus'
> experience a 'breakdown' in the traditional SOM sense (as I think you
> do) is missing the DQ 'force'.
> 
> SOM/SOL logic divides human experience into subjects and objects. The
> problem is that you cannot do this. It does not cover it. This is one
> of the basic premises of the MOQ. This is the difference, the expansion
> of LILA from ZMM...the romantic/classic into DQ/sq.
> 
> Phaedrus did not suffer a breakdown (in SOM terms) he had a unique DQ
> experience (in MOQ terms) and from this experience developed the
> MOQ.Remember the Indian/peyoty experience in LILA?
> 
> This experience, as a pure empiricist, was a signal to Phaedrus, just
> as it was to William James, Dewey, Northrop et al that dividing
> experience into subjects and objects is not complete and therefore
> false. Okay, check it out for yourself!
> 
> I would, imh experience say: experience for yourself...find out for
> yourself.
> 
> My response to your statement that the MOQ arose when Phaedrus was
> 'steeped in SOM' is that this is not so and that Phaedrus was steeped
> in Quality, Mary. Looking at it from this point of view makes much more
> sense to me than this silly MOQ out of SOL/SOM diversion.
> 
> We are discussing the MOQ from the MOQ perspectives and not from the
> single minded SOL pattern!
> 
> I will simply suggest that you experience for yourself and if this does
> not agree with the MOQ well talk.
> 
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html