[MD] Decision

[craigerb at comcast.net]

Andy, ian, Matt, Arlo, ian again & Krimel (in that order),
[Andy]
> Craig, you neglected to justify your premise that

> 1) The intellectual level is the manipulation of symbolic representations

This, of course, is Pirsig's own premise.  I have assumed it in order to
 investigate what follows from it.

[Andy]
> Consider that social interaction is communication from a self to an
> other, i.e. manipulation of symbols between subjects and objects.
 
Considered & rejected.  IMHO communication is between selves,
both being subjects.

[Andy]
> Otherness is created at level 3, not level 4.

Not generally.  Here's a planet & there's another one (both level 1).
Here's a cat & there's another one (level 2).  I have an idea & you have a
different one (level 4).  

[Andy]
1) The social level is the manipulation of symbolic representations
2) Symbolic representation requires both something-represented &
something-represented-to
3) Something-represented is an object
4) Something-represented-to is a subject
5) The social level requires subjects & objects
6) :. The intellectual level requires subjects and objects

1) is false & 6) does not follow from 1) - 5). 

[ian]
> What has this to do at all with this "Decision" thread ?
> The thread is not about arguments for or against SOL/SIM.

Horse complained that Bo would not "give it a rest".  I just
pointed out there was an argument for Bo's position that had not
(until Andy) been addressed.

[Matt]
> [the argument that SOL was the intellectual level] implied that all thoughts 
> carried a subject and object component.

Perhaps, what's your argument for this?  

[Matt]
> Are not all sentences thoughts?

IMHO none are.

[Craig, previously]
> the examples "Fore!" or "Duck!".

[Arlo]
> you keep offering shorthand instead of sentences...

[ian]
> In "Fore!" [& presumedly "Duck!"] the subjects and objects are implied

[Krimel]
> Both of these are imperative sentences where the subject is implied...
> The part that is missing here is that sentences require a noun and a verb
> not a subject and object.

With all due respect to your 5th grade grammar teacher, saying the "subjects and
objects are implied" just means they are not needed.  "Duck!" is a perfectly good
 English sentence without a subject or noun.
Craig