[MD] Bo's weak versus strong interpretation of quantum physiks

[plattholden at gmail.com]

On 28 Jul 2010 at 15:54, Krimel wrote:

[Platt]
A supernatural theistic world view is just as SOM as all world views except 
those of mystics who reject all bisected world views and artists who never
know 
beforehand exactly what their world view will become. Other than those two 
groups, I have yet to see anybody designate a culture not dominated by SOM,
and 
back it up with credible source. 

[Krimel]
I suspect this is because you begin your inquires with conclusions and try
to find reasons why your conclusions must be correct. I regard this as a
form of dishonest inquiry of the sort practiced by dmb, Origin, and people
like Josh McDowell.

[Platt]
Guess that means I'm still waiting for someone to provide evidence because you 
have none to offer. 

[Krimel]
In information theory the world is composed of information not subjects or
objects. In fractal geometry the world is not composed of discrete static
units of space and/or time but is continuous and dynamic. It is
deterministic but not predicatable.

[Platt]
I guess you're saying mathematics is a "world beyond SOM." If so, you're not

alone. Some scientists like Roger Penrose also a takes a Platonic viewpoint.
l 
preferin-the-sky the here-and -now variety of reality rather than the
pie-in-
the-sky variety. I respect Plato's assumption of a world of perfect forms of

which we are merely a poor SOM reflection. But when I think of mathematics
and 
mathematical theories, I think of subjects manipulating objective symbols in
a 
structured manner. 

[Krimel]
No I am saying that in a variety of forms of human inquiry, SOM is not the
underlying metaphysics. 

[Platt]
I say SOM is the underlying metaphysics for all forms of human inquiry because 
all forms of human inquiry presume subjects inquiring. 

[Krimel]
Without a government the private sector wouldn't have any money or
infrastructure to conduct its business. By isolating the legal use of force
to government we avoid having it used willy nilly in acts of barbarism.

[Platt]
I certainly agree government has legitimate functions. You mentioned several

important ones. Our differences are about size, scope and overall purpose. 

[Krimel]
I might even be willing to acknowledge that the federal government has taken
on a bigger role than it ought to have. But I think you should be willing to
acknowledge that the federal government was forced into this position by
negligence at the state and local level.

[Platt]
Before either of us is willing to acknowledge anything, we should probably 
express our ideas on the proper functions of government. But, I don't think 
such a discussion is something we want to get into at this point. Don't we have 
better fish to fry relative to the MOQ?

[Krimel]
You constantly remind us of the body counts racked up by Pol Pot, Stalin,
Hitler and whoever else comes to mind and you have defended our genocide of
native tribes and the murder and abuse of slaves on the basis of us having
killed fewer of them.

[Platt]
I don't think my "reminders" have been constant of the millions murdered by 
socialist governments, although it's good to be reminded from time to time
how 
the best of intentions can go horribly wrong. If I left you with the
impression 
that I think Indian genocide or murder and abuse of slaves was excusable, I 
categorically deny that I think that. What I do point out is that we ended 
slavery and Indian genocide Indians in the 19th century while countries in 
Europe and Asia, supposedly more "civilized" than "unsophisticated" America,

proceeded on a course of horror, death and destruction beyond anything 
previously endured by any peoples in history. Then you have to ask why.

[Krimel]
So now you run away from your emphasis on body count and claim the moral
superiority of timing. The point remains that there are 5 billion more
people alive and flourishing as a direct result of technology.

[Platt]
Run away? Moral superiority of timing? Sorry. You lost me. But, if you think I 
despise science and technology, perish the thought. My gripe is the same as 
Pirsig's (and learned from him):

"The defect is that subject-object science has no provision for morals." (Lila, 
22)  

And that applies to all branches of science including information theory, chaos 
theory, systems theory, or whatever esoteric branch you enjoy. .