[MD] The MOQ and Death

[X Acto]

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:51 PM, X Acto wrote:
> Steve,
> Socrates, stated that philosophy was the preparation for death.
>  "To fear death, gentleman, is no other than to think oneself wise
> when one is not, to think one knows what one does not know" (Apology, 32).
>
> In the Pragmatic tradition, I believe Pirsig would agree.


Steve:
Can you say more about what Socrates is getting at here. So is fear of
death the result of ignorance? Socrates here seems to be suggesting
that we fear because we don't realize how ignorant we actually are.
Would we be less fearful if we saw death as more of an unknown? Why?

Ron:
I believe he means, in the Pragmatic sense, that we have not personally
experienced death, therefore all our fears are abstractions that have
no corresponding experience. 

Steve:
I think it is a somewhat common suggestion among certain philosophers
and spiritual teachers or religious traditions that we ought to
"practice dying."

Socrates is quoted as suggesting this in Pheado
"...correct philosophers practice how to die,
and death is less feared by them of all people."

How does one "practice dying"? Is it by meditating on one's own death?
How does doing so make us less fearful?

Ron:
The eastern traditions tell one to kill the self. The martial masters would say
that practicing to die a good death, one practices to live a good life. In living
a good life, one is always prepared to die a good death. Being prepared
to die a good death eliminates fear. It's not intellectualizing death, see thats where
the fear arises, it's in the practice of preparation, it's the living of a good life
the active participation with the moment. In the moment, there is no fear
there is no death, there is only the eternal now.

Steve:
I believe that there is something called the "Book of the Dead"
somewhere in some version of Buddhism where dying adherents were asked
to talk about what was happening with them on their death beds. Anyone
know about it and if it can tell us what it is to "practice dying"

Ron:
The tibetan book of the dead, Liberation Through Hearing During the Intermediate State
it has to do with intention in guidance in the idea of rebirth and reincarnation.

Steve:
Pirsig talks about the tragic death of his son Chris in an afterword
to ZAMM, but I don't recall it as addressing how one should face her
own mortality.

I think the pragmatism of James implies a plurality of approaches to
death as needed since different dispositions (the tough minded/tender
minded, born once/twice born) require different philosophies.

Ron:
while sustaining biological and social patterns, kill all intellectual
patterns and morality will be served, Epitectus, a greek stoic and former slave
crippled by the abuse of his master, escapes post traumatic stress disorder 
by submersing himself in the now of experience. He said
Suffering arises from trying to control what is uncontrollable, or from neglecting 
what is within our power.