[MD] The Level of Intellectual Quality

[MarshaV]

Ron,

I understand 'ultimate', as representing emptiness, being preferred 
over 'absolute' because 'absolute' might suggest something that 
exists in and of itself,independently.  Nothing is independent in the
Madhayamika system, even emptiness.

Ron, I also think that equating relativism with 'Absolute relativism' is
a red herring.  That patterns are relative doesn't equate to 'all is equal', 
and doesn't prevent judgements based on what is useful.   

Concerning relative truths (sq), what is bad is that which causes suffering 
and what is good is that which removes suffering.  For me it isn't so 
complicated.


Marsha
 




On Mar 4, 2010, at 8:15 AM, X Acto wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Marsha,
> 
> I think it is proper to talk of Ultimate Truth rather than the Absolute, but, and I 
> could be misunderstanding, Ultimate Truth is not separate from conventional 
> truths.  Kind of like sq and DQ are interdependent.  
> 
> Ron:
> Nagarjuna would agree, to speak of a concept, it must be understood in terms of related
> concepts, a hanging together of ideas..when we use terms like ultimate and absolute
> we mean the entirety of things, the whole of it. Kant argued if the conception of
> such a thing is even possible, Nietzsche criticized Hegel for it..Aristotle charges Parmenides,
> Buddha mocks the idea of it. 
> 
> As it applies to both the one and the many, unity and plurality, monism and relativism.
> 
> But they are criticizing how  that belief is formed, Aristotle makes a point similar
> to Pirsig and James in that Absolute relativism neglects the good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 4, 2010, at 12:20 AM, John Carl wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:18 AM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I believe Pirsig would agree with W. James and Nagarjuna.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As would Royce and me, Ron.  Our case for an absolute is also the middle way
>> - it's not the only thing there is, but  neither is it non-existent.  And as
>> an existant, it pulls that moral compass toward better and better analogy.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html


 
___