[MD] atheistic and content

[MarshaV]

On Mar 12, 2010, at 7:32 AM, gav wrote:

> wow - i hadn't seen those before.
> i really disagree
> 
> i think writing off the bible is very bad idea. we understand our cultural lineage little enough
> without ignoring the central text. like telling the chinese to ignore confucious and lao tzu.

Gav, you may think it is a bad idea.  I think it is a great idea!  But I'm not telling you 
what to think.  I tossed my bible into the garbage and dumped coffee grounds and 
egg shells on top.  And poop to this culture.  It's suffering from a dis-ease and the 
bible, torah and koran are a part of the cause of that dis-ease, or least a major symptom.  

In the end, kill confusious (not sure confusious belongs in this category), laotzu 
and the buddha.  


> 
> you can't solve religious problems - they are mysteries. how do you solve the tao? or the mystery of the cross. pirsig is naive here
> 
> quality is nature; so quality is pantheistic? sounds like spinoza. pantheism is a theism.
> 
> pirsig misconstrues faith; faith is at the heart of everything - it is what it means to know oneself. the delphic maxim and faith are identical.
> 
> intellectual truth? what is that? intellectual truth is existential truth - truth is not generalisable, truth is a pathless land (krishnamurti).
> 
> spirit and faith are existential terms. dropping existential criteria is at odds with an using a radically empirical metaphysics. it is incongruent.
> 
> from these annotations pirsig doesn't look much better than dawkins.


Dawkins?  Is that some sort of denigration?  Resorting to name calling?  Is the association 
suppose to be scary?  -  RMP is unique!       

And the a 'pathless land' would seem to me to be without the traditional paths required.  
That's how I interpret.   Throw all the paths away.  It's right in front of you.   


Marsha




> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 12/3/10, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>> Subject: Re: [MD] atheistic and content
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Received: Friday, 12 March, 2010, 11:11 PM
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 12, 2010, at 6:34 AM, gav wrote:
>> 
>>> atheism may be a nonsensical position.
>>> it is like saying - 'here is this concept [of god]
>> that i have imagined, now i am going to pretend it doesn't
>> exist.
>> 
>> 
>> Gav,
>> 
>> Atheism to me is a low-value social static
>> pattern.   
>> 
>> [Definition:  Atheists are people who believe that god
>> or gods 
>> (or other supernatural beings) are man-made constructs, 
>> myths and legends or who believe that these concepts are 
>> not meaningful.]  
>> 
>> No existence/non-existence to debate.   
>> 
>>> 
>>> there is no transcendent ground to validate our
>> imaginings - quality, god, tao, fish, bubblewrap: all
>> imaginary and real
>> 
>> 
>> There is unpatterned experience which is available, and
>> sans drugs offers a rich, vital experience beyond
>> words.   
>> 
>> A cookbook or a romance novel can contain wisdom.  I
>> do not know how anyone can defend that violent, sexist crap
>> that is the bible.   
>> 
>> I was most grateful that RMP, as the MoQ's author, made it
>> so clear:
>> 
>> 
>> "The MOQ supports religion but does not support many
>> Christian traditions."
>>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>> 
>> The MOQ is an atheistic religious outlook that solves
>> rather than bypasses religious problems.
>>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>> 
>> "Quality is nature. The MOQ says there is no spiritual
>> principle in man that makes knowledge possible. Nature does
>> the whole job."
>>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>> 
>> “The MOQ does not rest on faith. In the MOQ faith is very
>> low quality stuff, a willingness to believe falsehoods.”
>>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>> 
>> "The MOQ would add a fourth stage where the term "God" is
>> completely dropped as a relic of an evil social suppression
>> of intellectual and Dynamic freedom. The MOQ is not just
>> atheistic in this regard. It is anti-theistic."
>>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>> 
>> "The selling out of intellectual truth to the social icons
>> of organized religion is seen by the MOQ as an evil act."
>>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>> 
>> “For quality, no faith is required because there is no
>> way you can disbelieve that there is such a thing as
>> quality.”
>>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>> 
>> "When you hear the words 'spirit' and 'faith' always look
>> for a traditional religionist trying to sneak his goods in
>> the back door. ...like the positivists, the MOQ drops spirit
>> and faith, cold."
>>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>> 
>> 
>> Hurray!!!  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha, of the hurray.    
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --- On Fri, 12/3/10, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>>>> Subject: [MD] atheistic and content
>>>> To: "MoQ" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>>>> Received: Friday, 12 March, 2010, 10:14 PM
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've always  thought of the moq as an
>> atheistic,
>>>> anti-thesitic place where 
>>>> I might be a religious person who doesn't believe
>> in god,
>>>> or better yet,
>>>> a place without such divisions as I and
>>>> god.   
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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