[MD] DMB and Me

[Matt Kundert]

Matt said:
Does not finding a need to use "preconceptual empirical 
reality" in my philosophy necessarily mean I'm rejecting 
radical empiricism?

DMB said:
If you see no need to pick it up and decide there's no need 
to find a place for it in your conceptual arrangements, then 
yes, of course that means you reject it.

Matt:
I guess I just don't see it that way.  This partly because I 
don't _identify_ radical empiricism with the phraseology of 
"preconceptual empirical reality" and various derivations.  I 
identify "radical empiricism" more like you do sometimes, 
with "rejection of traditional empiricism."  So, I don't reject 
radical empiricism because I take it's vocabulary to be 
aimed at getting around traditional empiricism (which is 
what you've thought you've needed to convince me of).  
However, being one vocabulary among many--one system 
of articulated philosophy among many--and not the only 
one that follows through on a rejection of traditional 
empiricism, I don't see why I need to pick up all the pieces 
of vocabulary of radical empiricism.

It's like saying you reject a person because you don't 
except everything about them.  I think it's wise if people 
set boundaries, and say, "Well, you did that one thing I 
don't like, but I'm not going to hate you for it.  Because 
there's a lot else you got going for you."  Relationships, 
I'm told, work better that way.  Less chances of "losing 
faith" and then becoming a rabid "born again" of 
something else.

DMB said:
It seems odd to construe the concept's value in terms of 
your needs and your conceptual arrangements. You seem 
to be suggesting that it's a matter of personal preference, 
as if we can take it or leave it, depending on our interests 
and purposes.

Matt:
Really?  Have you ever read James' Pragmatism?  What is 
value if not relative to something you value it _for_?  And 
what else am I supposed to value things for except 
relative to me?

DMB said:
This appeal to some hypothetical personal project that 
doesn't need Pirsig's central term does not fly, Mr Kundert.

Matt:
Well, see, you've obfuscated the issue, plopping down your 
own contentious interpretation of Quality in the middle of 
my philosophy, and saying I reject it.

DMB said:
Don't you realize how audacious to say you can find no use 
for Pirsig's main idea at MOQ.org? It wouldn't be so 
outrageous if you had a bunch of good reasons or 
something. But you don't care enough to even give her a 
good look.

Matt:
I was once audacious, not so much anymore....  But, I will 
grant you that, aside from the many, many (many) words 
I've dropped over the years here, and more recently at my 
website, I haven't been able to construct a systematic set 
of "good reasons" for my philosophical viewpoints.

However, if people want a small, potted summary of my 
hypothetical personal project (that's hypothetically been 
at my site for 3 and a half years), one can go here:
http://pirsigaffliction.blogspot.com/2006/05/introduction-to-pirsig.html

I think it's actually shorter than most of my MD posts.

I am, as I keeping saying, an amateur.  If that means you 
need to ignore me for being a know-nothing, I suggest you 
start doing so.

And, I suggest that you start to learn how to talk to amateurs.

DMB said:
If you're posting here at all, let alone for years, then your 
interest has already been demonstrated. Who spends time 
and energy on things they find useless or on things they 
don't care about? It just doesn't add up, Mr Kundert. I'm 
not buying it.

Matt:
Why do I post?  Passing interest in topics that come up 
that I can spit out opinions on in not that long of a time, 
maybe.  But mainly ego.  I still feel the occasional need to 
defend my "reputation"--but as people forget about me, I 
will feel that less and less.  As people stop talking to and 
about me, I will drift away (so if one is annoyed by me, 
listen up: I just gave you the secret key).

Have you not noticed the decline in my posting?  The 
decline in my involvement in people's conversations?  My 
increasing desire to just "let things go"?  I don't have time 
for long, protracted discussions.  I don't have time to give 
the patient ear to really understand people the way they 
should be understood, in order to really "get them"--I'm in 
grad school, I read 500 pages and write a systematically 
connected 3,000 words every week (which, if you haven't 
tried, is a significant amount of time/energy).  And this 
work is _not_ directed to any of the typical concerns of 
moq.org.  I'm glad your work dovetails all the time with 
moq.org and Pirsig.  That must make it easier.

Matt
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1