[MD] DMB and Me

[Andre Broersen]

dmb to Andre:
Thanks Andre. I think your comments are right and well put.

Andre:
Thank you for your encouragement dmb.

dmb:
I think Bo has his own thing going but he makes a common mistake. He
misunderstands the most basic distinction of the MOQ

There is another major misconception involved in Bo's SOL. His
formulation defies the MOQ's repositioning of subjects and objects.

Andre:
Yes, his reasoning really defies me sometimes (if not most of the
time). And it is interesting that you argue that ' They are leaving
Quality out of the Metaphysics of Quality'.

Bodvar keeps on harping on about the 'real' Phaedrus of ZMM, the
'discoverer' of Quality, an, as you know, inductive dynamic story. The
pace of the book is fast, motorcycle speed (if you like) environmental
changes heaping themselves up one after the other as personal changes
heap themselves up one after the other. DQ

LILA is deductive, the central work has been done (ZMM) now it is time
to integrate this into the world of 'everyday affairs' ( picking up
bar ladies and the like). The pace is very different. It is a
floating, an unfolding and integrating of static patterns of Quality
derived from the central ZMM insight. SQ

It is integrating this new insight, Phaedrus as an 'intellectual
pattern of Quality' , taking on Lila (biological) and Rigel
(social/intellectual,SOM).

And we are witness to the difficulties Phaedrus encounters ( he
clearly follows the gut-level/affective insights of ZMM [ of course
Lila has Quality] but how to come up with a convincing, from the
hip-pocket answer? He struggles... re-formulating, re-stating,
re-interpreting, re-analysing the responses he gets from the SOM world
in an effort to integrate those within the MoQ...to come, as close as
is possible, using everyday language, to make himself and his Quality
perspective and reference point understood.( similar to the way
Quality, which he had defended and had given up so much for, and which
he never, at any time once understood, 'revealed' itself).ZMM

Bodvar wants revolution, an immediate jailing and execution of the old
guard (SOM) and start afresh. Problem is: the world don't work that
way, as Phaedrus shows in LILA. The establishment of a new (Western
world) order has to deal with, and overcome, the mythos that has
generated that world. This is extremely difficult and does take time
(the example of Russia and China, amongst others) is good example of
this.

I get the sense that Bodvar holds Pirsig personally responsible for
this by accusing him of not understanding his own metaphysics. I
think,   (and I stand corrected on this), that the MoQ is not,
contrary to Bodvar's inerpretation, 'out of SOM', the way the social
level is 'out of' the inorganic level. Sure it has used it (as ZMM
tells us) but it is out of radical empiricism, direct experience, the
direct experience of the undifferentiated aesthetic continuum,
recognised as such and reinforced and confirmed by the insights of
Eastern philosophies and of course the Native American experience with
Dusenburry.

Pirsig never argues an 'emergence of the MoQ' out of SOM. Rather he
argues strongly that the only beef he has with a S/O analysis is that
it does not recognise Quality, and further to this that one should not
eliminate it, discard it, destroy it. No,... one needs to expand it to
incorporate values as its reference point.

Pirsig shows how this can/should be done but again, Bodvar seems very
dismissive of this.

I get the sense that Bodvar is dissappointed with this 'expansion'
argument also.He sees it as a poor SOM/Quality paste job. Putting
these together, you do create a lot of misconceptions for
yourself....and a lot of other people.

Imho
Andre