[MD] Hot stoves and those who sit on them

[Andre Broersen]

Ham (who has only a quarrel with Andre):

Proprietary sensibility and individual awareness are synonomous. The reason
I defined the "nature" of awareness as proprietary was to make the point 
that
conscious awareness is unique to the individual. It is the Self, not the 
universe
or an extracorporeal level, who is aware of (experiences) objects and 
senses
their value

Andre, still quarreling:

Look Ham, I do not understand how you can say on the one hand that every-
thing is related (I call this due to the idea of co-dependent arising) 
and then say:
except the knower...some sort of individual 'Self'.Where does the 'knower'
come from then? From outside these relationships?

The MoQ denies any existence of a self that is independent of inorganic, 
organic,
social and intellectual patterns. 'There is no 'self' that contains 
these patterns. These
patterns contain the self. This denial agrees with both religious 
mysticism and
scientific knowledge. In Zen,there is reference to 'big self' and 'small 
self'. Small
self is the patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality.' (Annot.29, LC)

You are placing the individual, the 'self' the 'I' as the central 
reality. And, as you know,
this runs counter to the MoQ.

Andre