[MD] Buddhism's s/o

[MarshaV]

Hi Mary,

It didn't dawn on me right away either.  Certainly I knew Nagarjuna was 
definitely using logic in his MMK.  I read of the two-truths debate between 
Tsongkhapa and Gorampa which contains argument with refutation and 
refutation of refutation of refutation, all logically presented.   Even the four
noble truths are to be logically understood.   I knew from meditation that 
one is observing/noting thoughts come and go,  but it was only a few weeks 
ago it started to clicked together.  The other day a book falls into my possession 
that spells it out so plainly that I'd have to be deaf and blind not to see it clearly.  
Ka-chink!  It seems so obvious now, it is hard to understand why I didn't see it.  
Cultural blindness just as you suggested.  It took me a very, very long time.  
Embarrassing really.  But better late than never,even if its the tip of the iceberg.   


Marsha








On May 1, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Mary wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> 
> At various times people here have said that the Intellectual Level cannot be
> "just SOM" because that would exclude Eastern intellectual patterns.  I've
> asked which patterns, but never got a list.  It's so refreshing to hear you
> come forward with the idea that Buddha was using the same logic we employ to
> think through the problems of the human condition.  When you start thinking
> about this argument that the East doesn't use SOM, and you start dissecting
> it -  why do they think that, then why do they think "that" all the way
> down, a couple of things come to mind.
> 
> Either (like me) many people don't know much about the East and so subscribe
> to a lot of vague ideas about what people must think about over there, or
> there's a subtle form of racism at work.  You know, they're "other" and
> "foreign" so they must think differently than we do.  Kind of silly.  
> 
> Mary
> 
> MarshaV
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:13 PM
> 
>> To recap why I think Buddhism cannot be used as an exception to
>> the Intellectual Level being SOM, I offer these to quotes that indicate
>> that Buddhism used logic and the scientific method for an objective
>> study of 'Mind'.
>> 
>> 
>> "... So at the beginning, in the middle and at the end of the Buddha's
>> path,
>> observation plays an extremely important role.  This is similar to the
>> role that
>> objective observation plays in the scientific tradition which teaches
>> that when
>> we observe a problem we first formulate a general theory followed by
>> specific
>> hypothesis. We find the same thing happening in the teaching of the
>> Four
>> Noble Truths and here the general theory is that all things have a
>> cause,
>> and the specific hypothesis is that the causes of suffering are craving
>> and
>> ignorance."
>> 
>> "   Experience in Buddhism is comprised of two components - the
>> objective
>> component and the subjective component.  In other works, the things
>> around
>> us and we the perceivers.  Buddhism is noted for its analytical method
>> in the
>> area of philosophy and psychology.  What we mean by this is that the
>> Buddha
>> analyzes experience into various elements, the most basic of these
>> being the
>> five Skandhas or aggregates - form, feeling, perception, mental
>> formation or
>> volition and consciousness.   The five aggregates in turn can be
>> analyzed
>> into the eighteen elements (Dhatus) and we have a still more elaborate
>> analysis in terms of seventy two elements.  This method is analytical
>> as it breaks up things.  We are not satisfied with a vague notion of
>> experience,
>> but we analyze it, we probe it, we break it down into its component
>> parts like
>> we break down the chariot into the wheels, the axle and so on.  And we
>> do
>> this in order to get an idea how things work. When we see for instance
>> a
>> flower, or hear a piece of music, or meet a friend, all these
>> experiences
>> arise as a result of components.  This is what is called the analytical
>> approach.
>> And again this analytical approach is not at all strange to modern
>> science and
>> philosophy."
>> 
>> 
>>   (Peter D. Santina, 'Fundamentals of Buddhism',BAUS)
>> 
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>> 
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