[MD] Painting
MarshaV
valkyr at att.net
Fri May 7 13:57:50 PDT 2010
Good afternoon John,
Thank you for inviting me.
First, about Lila's soliloquy. I find it more interesting as a definition of reality:
Reality is whatever you think it is, there's no way you can lie about it, and if
you change your understanding of reality, then reality changes too. I am
definitely interested in reality. And that it is not possible to hold a pattern
that you think is false. We are our patterns. Or patterns our us. Change
the patterns and the individual changes. I never considered if a 'hatred of
being pinned down.' I take Lila's words very seriously, but for me they are
about reality.
In general, I am an introvert. Being public requires a great deal of energy,
which can leave me feeling uncomfortable. I really like people, but I get
exhausted. But this has nothing to do with Lila's soliloquy and nothing to
do with being a teenage girl. In fact, while a woman, I sometimes think
you are applying some kind of expectations to me based on your experience
with your women, that has nothing to do with me. My youngest is going to be
forty-years-old. My daughter is forty-three. It has been a long time since I
have had to consider teenage angst. Being a widow, long past motherhood,
I chose to withdraw to my cave to see what meditation, study and solitude
would teach me.
There are times when it is appropriate to paint through emotional angst,
and there is a time when it is far better to paint for the joy of it. I am in
the latter stage. By the way, your daughter's painting is great! It is nice
at her age to be able to express herself in such a creative manner. From
my point of view it seems more confusing to be a young woman today. It can't
be easy...
Where were we? Oh yaa, you have a set of static patterns concerning the
feminine mind. Kill them patterns, John. Kill them! There is nothing that
will kill a relationship faster than static expectations.
Your ideas about the fourth level are interesting, but I don't see the problem.
I see too much either/or thinking, and too much projection. I actually like
science, philosophy, mathematics. It's all very interesting. But I get the
feeling you want to ask me about something else, but I'm not sure what?
You want me to explain my need for silliness, or as Arlo might put it
my longing for the "pretty moon'? I REALLY dig the pretty stars!!!
Art and science? No, I would say that understanding the way things
really are will improve human experience, including science.
And heart served with the intellectual patterns would be nice.
Thanks John,
Marsha
On May 7, 2010, at 3:20 PM, John Carl wrote:
> Marsha,
>
> Care to join me for Lunch today?
>
> Have a seat. I'll order the wine.
>
> White Zinfandel, only, I'm afraid. Its the only kind Lu drinks usually and
> I'm more of a beer guy.
>
>
> I had an incident this past weekend, that coincided with some thoughts I'd
> been having about that whole "fuck your questions" soliloquy of LIla, which
> you relate to and somehow it ties in to the whole definition of the
> intellectual level.
>
> What Lila's soliloquy pointed to, imo, is the natural human hatred of being
> objectified. As Jacques Ellul puts it, "pinned to the wall in a butterfly
> museum" and it has been his thoughts and philosophizin' on the subject which
> have triggered some insightful realizations which coincide with my daughter
> Cassi's reaction to the normal vicissitudes of adolescent girl-hood. Boy
> trouble, to be exact. Worse than mere boy trouble, however. Boy trouble
> coupled with sister trouble. The boy in question being a good friend of
> hers that happens to be an on/off boyfriend of her sister, Sarah.
>
> Anyway, Cass has been real, real upset over her feelings and frustrations,
> and we were at my mom's visiting and she kept on wanting to leave, tugging
> us to the door, she wanted to go real bad and finish a painting she'd
> started, that was calling to her from home.
>
> What she'd been feeling the most, was a lack of caring on the part of her
> sister. A lack of understanding and a lack of compassion. So it seemed to
> me that she was driving for a way to express herself that would be
> understood.
>
>
> When we did get home, and she did get to work on her painting, she got even
> more frustrated, more upset over the way it was going. Her mom tried to
> give some advice, and Cass just took it really bad, as criticism and ended
> up sobbing and almost hysterical.
>
> Over a bloody bit of paint on a canvas. I mean, I just don't get that. I
> mean, I do get that, but I don't think that way at all. I can't care that
> much over artistic effort.
>
> Her mom did succeed finally in showing her how to lighten some muddiness,
> which had been Cassi's complaint, and how to undo what some things she'd
> done.
>
> Cassi didn't finish the painting to her satisfaction, but she got to where
> she could leave it alone and go back to school in contentment. And I like
> it. It's unfinished, slapdash and vivid emoting from a 16 year old girl.
> But she was correct in her attempt. It expresses something to me, to us
> all, that I didn't get from her words, from her situation, from her reality.
>
> "Oh, you're just another teen girl suffering from adolescent angst and
> excessive hormones."
>
> That's her reality and my statement is the truth. Big deal.
>
> "Yeah, thanks for the intellectual analysis dad, that really helps." I can
> hear her saying, if I bothered to tell her that, which I didn't.
>
> What fascinated me was seeing this repugnance at being intellectually pinned
> down, combined with a deep-felt need for expression, for being understood,
> create art.
>
> Lu put it on her website for me so I could actually show
> you<http://www.portraitsbylu.com/ART/CassiPainting.jpg>what I'm
> talking about, but I want to tie this all in to our discussion here
> on "the intellectual level" and how that whole realm of intellecuality is
> such a male dominated world. There's an amoral coldness to it that seems to
> repel the feminine mind. Hence the truth contained in Lila's Soliloquy in
> rejecting intellectual traps. And which Pirsig understood so well!
>
> And mind you, all men possess feminine minds, even as women have a heaping
> helping of the masculine to their mix. But primary orientations toward
> reality are deeply entrenched in sex differences. I saw this clearly with
> my daughter. She worked through her mental problems in a different way than
> I or most guys would. She used a different part of the human
> thought-repertoire. And by no means an inferior one!
>
> In fact, I'd assert along with Horse's recent postulation, and Platt's
> long-standing assertion, that an artistic aesthetic is the "highest" of all
> levels. That when it comes down to it, rationality itself is an artistic
> creation that evolves according to aesthetic considerations of order and
> beauty.
>
> And Leonard Shlains fascinating book, Art and Physics, makes a profound case
> for the evolution of new ideas in human experience coming first through the
> arts, the poets, the mythos in whole. THEN comes intellectual description.
>
>
> I'm thinking the MoQ would be well served to rename the 4th level something
> more along the lines, "the code of art" level. With intellectual thinking
> part of this level, as rationality is an art. In fact, the 4th level ought
> to be considered a division between classic and romantic thought - with the
> Romantic aspect of human consciousness closer to DQ than the Classic.
>
> The synthesis of art and science that puts science in its place.
>
> Thanks Marsha,
>
> burp.
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:07 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> A very, beautiful and playful family. Thank you sharing the video.
>> It is no wonder you seem like a happy, quality guy.
>>
>> I did enjoy, and smile! And feel some nostalgia.
>>
>> Thank you...
>>
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 5, 2010, at 11:30 AM, John Carl wrote:
>>
>>> Here Marsha,
>>>
>>> A smile for you. My three talented dauhters:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1UUC20gsqM
>>>
>>> Sarah's my middle girl, Cassi the redheaded youngest girl and Emily the
>>> talented videographer.
>>>
>>> Josh my son starts off the extravaganza, and there are also sneak peeks
>> of
>>> Lu and me in my daughter's video.
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:00 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> round and round...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbIuC9hTY9Y
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marsha, the out of tuned...
>>>>
>>>> ___
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