[MD] Reading & Comprehension

[skutvik at online.no]

Andre

6 May

Bodvar before to Marsha:

> "Rules for their manipulation .." smacks of thinking and/or
> intelligence, but thinking precedes the 4th. level by hundreds of
> thousand of years
 
> Andre:
> Bodvar, are you really suggesting that 'thinking' does not take place
> at the intellectual level?

The idea of the level system is that the next level brings the former up 
to a new "power" of quality. The biological level brought life to the  
inorganic level, but the inorganic is life's fundament, thus all  levels are 
at intellect's disposal. Now, IMO thinking (intelligence) began at some 
stage of biological-neural complexity and is all-biological, but was 
employed by the social level where thinking became conveyed by 
language - the inner voice we know so well 

An aside: You know Jaynes theory of early man believing this to be 
gods talking to them) 

Then intellect inherited intelligence from biology and intelligence-
conveyed-by-language from society, but its S/O scalpel went to work 
on these phenomena and thinking "mental" in contrast to the 
"corporeal" world. So, to conclude thinking is around at all levels ... 
except the inorganic and lower biological.  


Bodvar:
> But this is spot on. The objective, detached attitude leaves emotions,
> morals and values subjective disturbances that has to be stripped away
> to make way for progress.
 
> Andre:
> Progress towards what Bodvar? I am beginning to shudder at the thought
> of your 'future' world....will there be room for any human beings? Or
> are you saying that this is what the SOM pattern would have led us to
> if it wasn't for the MOQ?

Yes, that's right, I did speak from intellect's - SOM's - point of view.  

> But then again, as I have suggested to you before, if you place the
> MOQ outside of the intellectual level (as you claim it is) and you
> even claim that the intellectual level is devoid of thinking, what are
> we poor thinking, socializing, feeling, farting, copulating human
> beings to do?

Regarding "thinking" see above.

> You are still awaiting the second coming ( I suggested this in a
> previous post to which you did not respond). Waiting for the
> 'realization' of your 'Quality level, your 'super-rationality' whilst,
> when you stop thinking about it you'll realize that the Quality moment
> is right here, right now. That is what Mr. Pirsig has given us and the
> finger pointing... through which to possibly find your own
> direction.........and what you are taking away, my friend.

Well, yes certainly I hope for a future when the MOQ will dominate 
existence. The fact that the static and dynamic interactions have been 
active all the time is no comfort, I mean the intellectual level AS SOM -
before the MOQ - did a lot of good but created a bleak world when 
viewed as REALITY ITSELF. . 

> I mean, what is this all about Bodvar? Are you on a prestige/celebrity
> mission or something?

Everything I say here can be used against me, so whatever you think.
 
> You are determining how I should experience! You are telling me how I
> should properly understand the MOQ! You are telling me how to reach
> enlightenment! I.e the Bodvar way. Sounds like some religious fanatics
> I know and heard of.

But it's you who reads my posts and responds to them and I answer 
your responses. But again you seem  genuinely interested in the MOQ 
and I sense you feel as dissatisfied as I do with DMB', Steve's and 
Matt's philosophology.   

Bodvar