[MD] the sophists

[Andre Broersen]

Bodvar to Marsha quoting from ZMM:

'The results of Socrates' martyrdom
and Plato's unexcelled prose that followed are nothing less
than the whole world of Western man as we know it. If the idea
of truth had been allowed to perish unrediscovered by the
Renaissance it's unlikely that we would be much beyond the
level of prehistoric man today. The ideas of science and
technology and other systematically organized efforts of man
are dead-centered on it. It is the nucleus of it all'.

Andre:
If you are looking for more 'proof' that your SOL thesis is invalid as intellect dominating the entire intellectual level from the East to the West and from here to eternity, it says: 'in the whole world of Western man', you have it right here Bodvar. WESTERN man Phaedrus says. Though I presume that was not your intention. Be careful at generalizing.It was with Aristotle that a scientific, 'objective' intellectual pattern was born.

And, once again I repeat what Phaedrus of ZMM suggested: It was with Aristotle that our scientific understanding of the world was born.Note that he does not say: that our ENTIRE understanding of the world was born. Nor does he say that out subjective/objective understanding of the world was born. He simply says that with this development Quality, that which the Sophists taught, became a species of truth and not the other way around.Truth won, the Good lost.

Bodvar:
See, this is the objective part of what the MOQ calls the intellectual level,

Andre:
And here you perpetuate your misunderstanding. In the MOQ the intellectual level is 'subjective' as the social level is. The 'objective'parts are the inorganic and organic levels. You are completely conflating and confusing the mind/matter, the subjective/objective and the subject/object concepts.
To wit: you are conflating and, because of this, utterly confusing SOM and the MOQ!

Mr. Pirsig has shown them to be part of an evolutionary hierarchy of VALUES within the MOQ. They constitute different levels of evolution, different conceptualizations to abstract from our direct, pure experience on a moment to moment basis.

Again, you are waiting for some sort of 'future' time when the MOQ will finally be realized. Reminds me of the Christians waiting for the second coming , when heaven/paradise will be established on earth. What an incredible wank!

The MOQ points to what is NOW Bodvar, what is NOW and has been for a long time. This moment. And this moment is no different to this moment in Buddha's 'time'. Time is a ghost Bodvar. You keep on harping on: first this, then that and then came this and then that... what if evolution is not developing in a linear way? Ever considered this?

All of the past, all of the future lies in this moment, right NOW.

But, no matter what I, or anyone else says, you stick to you static past!

You cut yourself off from being taken seriously Bodvar. You selectively ignore responding to anything someone brings in that challenges your conviction. You are not playing the discussing game. You have set yourself outside this ( in the same way as you have set the MOQ outside of the intellectual level).All you do is sermonize.

I really think you have a container problem Bodvar. Though I haven't quite worked out which is which yet!