[MD] Rorty, Pirsig and the Sophists

[Andre Broersen]

Bodvar to All MOQ discuss:

It is also clear from the text that Plato&  Co transformed the Quality
(Arete) which he gives examples of in the Homeric heroes and
heroines into some new kind of Quality

Andre:
How can you deduct from this text that Quality was 'transformed' into 'some new kind of Quality?
He says clearly that it was 'encapsulated'. You do know the difference between 'transforming' something and 'encapsulating' something???

Bodvar:
and how can you avoid "translating" this into MOQ - and see that this
is the intellectual level starting to find its form and that a the Sophist's
looked like what the "new age" wanted to escape, hence Plato's
hatred. In a MOQ retrospect we see that they weren't "socialists",
rather intellect's subjectivists.

Andre:
And this makes no sense at all. 'Translating' what 'into MOQ'? '...looked like what the new age wanted to escape'?? Come on Bodvar... express yourself so that every Tom, Dick and Harry and Mary can understand you!( English is my second language as well... I worked hard at where I am now with it and continue to do so).

Bodvar:
'...but this terms (S/O) was still a thousand years into the future'.

Andre:
So do not confuse them... and project onto them a future construction and definition that was a thousand years hence!

Bodvar:
Think for yourself for a change, this must fit the MOQ and to say that
before the Greeks Quality had been "absolute" is ridiculous.

Andre:
Here we go again Bodvar: Who is claiming that Quality had been absolute?

Bodvar:
It made a  dynamic leap to the intellectual level that's the only viable option. The
social era's mythological "superstructure" had reached a point when it  no longer had any appeal so in that sense DQ "intervened" to see the  birth of a new level.

Andre:
Do you actually listen to yourself Bodvar? Do you actually re-read what you have written before you press the 'send it' button?...and do you understand yourself? This is a whole heap of gobbledigook showing a forceful, mechanistic way of interpreting which is quite alien to the MOQ.

Bodvar:
"Teaching quality" how exactly was that carried out? "To-day well have
a dynamic math lesson without static rules and fixed numbers ..."
There is only one way to teach quality and that is to teach the MOQ
where intellect-as-SOM is the final stage before realization of "X" and I
only know Buddhism that transcended the Upanishads period (which
was an Oriental intellect according to Pirsig) to a realization that truth
is subordinated a greater context.

Andre:
You are enforcing something Bodvar! This is pre-school stuff. I now send you, as I did a while back, to pre-kindergarten days. Learn to read and write first, then you may be included to where John and I are playing with the girls (teachers!) and doing it on the swings and sea-saws.

Bodvar:
Right "the reality of the True" is Intellect's "objective" aspect...

Andre:
You are once again confusing SOM with the MOQ interpretation! The true is an intellectual static pattern of value... it is subjective ( i.e social/intellectual level values). The 'objective' are the inorganic and organic patterns of value.( and you know what led Mr. Pirsig to differentiate between the two and kept the S and O).

Bodvar:
Probably as pointing to what seems so obvious - that everything is
man-made -  but the MOQ rejects subjectivism as much as
objectivism and why Pirsig didn't mention the Sophist issue in LILA.

Andre:
Then why bring it up all the time? Bloody hell! This is an even clearer indication why you should drop your SOL thesis! You are the one that keeps on reviving it, reinforcing it and celebrating it.
This is the MOQ discuss...remember?!! Not your SOM discuss!!!

You are so gung ho on Mr. Pirsig pointing you towards the subject-object metaphysics that you, in your exultation, have reified it, but Mr. Pirsig went straight through it, bypassing it to develop a way of pointing at the moon which you completely misunderstand. The MOQ is not SOM. For the MOQ, SOM has no ontological basis so why you insist that the intellectual level is SOM through and through is way beyond any 'true' MOQ'er.