[MD] e: Reading & Comprehension

Sun May 16 08:39:05 PDT 2010

On May 16, 2010, at 11:31 AM, John Carl wrote:

> Of course statements about nature are static, Marsha.  As is the word
> "nature".  But isn't that a bit nonsensical to assert because our finger is
> pointing, the moon is encapsulated?

You decide what is cool, and what is nonsensical.  

"Cold hearted orb that rules the night
Removes the colours from our sight 
Red is grey and yellow white 
But we decide which is right 

And which is an illusion"

> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 8:21 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Carl,
>> 
>> I'm fine with nature.  I'm fine with RMP's statements, but consider
>> this, those were patterned (conventional)  statement.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 16, 2010, at 11:09 AM, John Carl wrote:
>> 
>>> Marsha,
>>> 
>>> Please consider the following dialogue carefully and reconsider the
>>> formulation you posted.  Is Quality Static?
>>> 
>>> Copleston:
>>> 
>>> Is man merely a child of Nature?
>>> 
>>> Pirsig:
>>> 
>>> Yes. Quality is nature.
>>> 
>>> Copleston:
>>> 
>>> Or is there in him a spiritual principle which makes knowledge possible,
>>> whether it be knowledge of Nature or moral knowledge?�
>>> 
>>> Pirsig:
>>> 
>>> The MOQ says there is no spiritual principle in man that makes knowledge
>>> possible. Nature does the whole job.
>>> 
>>> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 7:57 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello John,
>>>> 
>>>> I think that nature is one of the most dynamic static patterns,
>>>> but it's still pattern applied to DQ.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 16, 2010, at 10:04 AM, John Carl wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nature is a static pattern?  Then you believe everything is.  I can't
>>>>> imagine anything more dynamic than  nature.
>>>>> 
>>>>> At least the nature we have here in California, but I'm quite sure its
>>>> the
>>>>> same everywhere.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 10:25 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Ian,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm not sure how I responded to is "NATURE is intellect", but 'nature'
>>>> is
>>>>>> a static pattern of value, not an absolute.  No matter how forceful he
>>>>>> states it, I'm not going to take anything as a given until I consider
>> it
>>>>>> fully.  I was discussing a level of patterns, and I had the feeling he
>>>> was
>>>>>> discussing 'thinking'.  There is something in the way he uses the
>>>>>> word 'intellect' that makes me think it's about thinking in general.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just this morning I was thinking about my earlier discussion with Horse
>>>> and
>>>>> Arlo on the dividing line between intellect and intelligence, and how
>>>> that
>>>>> fits with know-how vs. know-that and it sems very clear to me this
>>>> morning
>>>>> that know-how is intelligence and know-that is intellect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> An amoeba knows how to avoid a puddle of acid, but it doesn't know that
>>>> it's
>>>>> avoiding a puddle of acid.  Know-how is biological and know-that is
>>>> human.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Doesn't it all just sort of dovetail together nicely?  I feel like I'm
>>>>> getting a really solid metaphysical understanding (know-that) here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One can look at all patterns as 'conceptions', or one can look at
>>>>>> what patterns represent, their category or function.  I can all too
>>>>>> easily toss it all off to conceptual vapor, and go chop wood.  But I'm
>>>>>> curious to thoroughly understand how it works.  If I can.  It is not
>>>>>> unimportant to the way lives are lived.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am I weird?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Compared to normal people, probably.  Compared to me and others on MD,
>>>> no.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chopping Wood?  Today is the day for gardening.  Nature beckons!
>>>>> 
>>>>> take care,
>>>>> 
>>>>> John
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 16, 2010, at 1:02 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Arlo, Marsha,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Marsha, is your problem reacting to Arlo saying this is how it is -
>>>>>>> the insulting schoolmasterly impression - because you are missing
>> that
>>>>>>> his sentences start with IF ?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just logical consequences of the statements of others.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> [Marsha]
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> lament
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> misconception:
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> entities (self & object)
>>>>>>>> exist
>>>>>>>> independently.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> [Arlo]
>>>>>>>> Which is... TAADAA!.. SOM! If ALL intellectual patterns are SOM,
>> this
>>>> is
>>>>>> NOT
>>>>>>>> a misconception, it is the NATURE of intellect.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ___
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