[MD] Pirsig's theory of truth

[skutvik at online.no]

John. 

15 May

> Sorry for the tardy, Bo.  It's summertime and the livin' is busy...

Summer! Lucky you. The "global warming" hasn't reached my Ultima 
Thule yet,  one benefit is that this late spring have shut our doom-
sayers up.  

Bo before:
> The Q- intellectual level occurred when people realized that "language is
> symbols in contrast to the what it symbolizes" and moreover "that thoughts
> are subjective turning of mental wheels in contrast to the real world out
> there"  ... this and a million similar subject/object contrasts comprise
> the VALUE of the intellectual level. 
 
John:
> Don't you think people realized pretty quickly that the word for
> "saber-toothed tiger" was completely different than real tigers?  That
> cave drawings were separate from what they represented?  The very
> creation of a representation of reality implies awareness of the
> difference.  So imo, you have a very perverted view of the
> intellectual ignorance of early human society.

I know that you regard me as having perverted views, but here is THE 
point. The social age - when that level was leading edge - did not 
regard language as some harmless subjective "in here" shadow of the 
objective real world "out there", but as a powerful and magical (as we 
use the term) means to - f. ex - sway animal to come to their hunting 
grounds or pitfalls by correctly performed rituals, cave paintings, 
whatever. The ancients surely regarded the world "wolf" as different 
from the real specimen and "crying wolf" was a bad joke even then, 
yet, the border wasn't absolute. Again, intellect occurred when this 
border became reality's fundament. Get it?  

Now, the social level is not a past, but part of our constitution, the 
intellectual level has just positioned itself on top of it, yet religions - 
even the very intellect-influenced Christendom - shows remnants of 
this language-not-yet-subjective-separated-from-objects reality with 
prayers and ceremonies to sway God to support our cause. In the all-
social Muslim culture language (signs) has not parted company with 
reality at all. To mock the prophet in words or by cartoon-drawings is a 
deadly sin. While the  intellect-steeped West regards this as infantile, 
language isn't reality, a drawing is just ... to burn a flag or an effigy will 
not hurt anyone ... etc. ad infinitum.  

Here is my own quandary: On one hand I'm a staunch "intellectualist", 
super-happy for this level to have lodged on top of the social level and 
"debunked" it in our part of the world. On the other hand it is the 
blockage to reach the MOQ  -  no level recognises any "movement" 
above itself  - so (if you understand the infinite depth of my thinking) I 
have speculated if not DMB & Co's intellectual (i.e. SOM-) "moq" is 
best for all foreseeable future. Intellect hasn't "conquered the world" 
and the true MOQ will weaken intellect. But on the third hand, it is the 
MOQ that has given me this view of things, can the genie be put back 
into the bottle? 


Bodvar