[MD] Reading & Comprehension

[MarshaV]

John, John, John, 

I do not think art, or my painting, is intellectual.  No. No. No.  

Every time the subject of art comes up I wonder is there 
something I can say.  But, no, there is no-thing for me to say.  
I moved to this island to paint as meditation.   


On May 29, 2010, at 12:07 AM, John Carl wrote:

> Marsha, Marsha Marsha:
> 
> 
>>> Marsha to Arlo:
>> 
>> My fundamental
>> point is that the fourth level consists of intellectual static patterns of
>> value as
>> reified concepts and the rules for their rational manipulation.
>> Intellectual
>> patterns create false boundaries, giving the illusion of independence, or
>> 'thingness'. The fourth level is a formalized subject/object (SOM) level
>> where the subjective is supposedly stripped from the experience.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> What about Art?  What about Music?  What about dancing and dreaming and all
> the human things we do and think and feel that are not rational, are not
> intellectual at all, but make up the best part of who we are and who we want
> to be?

Maybe art is love and outside categorization.  


> What about painting, Marsha?

I don't know about painting.  I love to paint, and paint to love.  (Remove the pronouns please.) 


> What about a painting my daughter did, which still hangs in the door of my
> bedroom, and speaks to me of so much, so much important and wondrous things
> that have nothing to do with words or division or any of that intellectual
> defining that comes in and tries to capture the spirit of what is real in
> its wordy definitioning?
> 
> What about that Marsha?

Sounds like Quality as Love.     


> It's not your fault.  The fourth level should never have been labeled "the
> intellectual" as if that certain system of knowing, that smug objectivism
> that was thoroughly thrashed in ZAMM comes roaring back as the apex of all
> being, top dog of the hierarchical pile.

Hmmmm.  Once you see the intellectual level as patterns, it all changes, doesn't it?  
I love intellectual patterns.  Do you think I would be struggling to participate in this list if 
I didn't think the process was incredibly beautiful, and full of love?  Hierarchical from 
an evolutionary perspective and as a movement towards freedom.  Works for me!  
Works just fine...  

To my mind the tragedy is being stuck thinking, often unconsciously, 'subject-and-objects' 
is the way things are in reality.  Another reason I agree with Bo.  There is a point-of-view 
higher than than the intellectual level (Q-level sounds alright.) where the conflict melts away.  


> 
> balderdash.  Bad labeling is all.  The 4th level is not "intellectual" its
> "aesthetic".

Aesthetics is a reified concept!!!  It is very much a product of a s/o reality transforming 
experience into an objectified thing-in-itself.  Experiencing beauty, love and joy is 
unbounded and the word is not the experience.  


> And it's certainly NOT SOM.  What a travesty that would be.  Knock it off
> immediately.

Well, for me, the fourth level is SOM, but it is not ugly.  It is beautiful when seen rightly.    

Where RMP translates the Taoist poem into 'kill intellectual patterns',  I think what he is saying 
is that unpatterned experience requires dropping all thought especially those intellectual patterns 
wanting to experience unpatterned experience.  Does that make sense?  


> 
> Lovingly all the same,
> 
> John



Art seems impossible to talk about.  Whatever it is, for me it is not this, not that.   That is for 
painting as much as fixing motorcycles, I would think, or preparing a cup of tea.   Yes?   


Bye cherry pie.



Marsha




 
___