[MD] Knots

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[Mark]
I find this interesting as it relates to today's politics.  Would you say that
those that follow Obama can be described by the Wiki paragraph above?

[Arlo]
I think it (lower middle-class farmers, public servants, teachers, small
businessmen) paints a broad picture that transcends the "red/blue" dichotomy of
pundit-described America. The NSP appealed to mostly a disenfranchised segment
fueled by nightmare and patriotism, with what Pirsig points to as an attempt to
subvert intellect to the social level. Elements of this to varying degrees can
be found among both the Democratic and Republican parties.

[Mark]
As history always repeats itself, I am just trying to identify what parts are
repeating.

[Arlo]
The primary tenets of the NSP was (1) distrust of the media, (2) distrust of
the Academy, (3) a demand for unwaivering loyalty and patriotism, (4) fear of
Auslaender, primarily "Jews" but all non-German(ic) races were seen as
culturally and morally inferior, and (5) a belief in a divine "destiny" of the
German state. Much has been written about the NSP, and the rise of Fascism, as
a historical response to Bolshevism (intellectualism) and a rise in national
pride.

But again, I think the main take-away point from the MOQ is that fascism was a
response to the intellectual level achieving dominance over the social
(evidenced, by Pirsig, as "democratic and communistic socialism"). 

"The hurricane of social forces released by the overthrow of society by
intellect was most strongly felt in Europe, particularly Germany, where the
effects of World War I were the most devastating. Communism and socialism,
programs for intellectual control over society, were confronted by the
reactionary forces of fascism, a program for the social control of intellect."
(LILA)

If you are looking for trends of history repeating in the rise of the NSP, I'd
suggest starting here. 

[Mark]
I am talking about the time before the huge nationalism and war-mongering.  The
S from NSP was Socialism. 

[Arlo]
If the NSP is "socialist" (or was) it was in name only. Its origins begin with
the "huge nationalism" you mention. Its earliest history is documented by
attacks on international Jewery, Bolshevism and appeals to the superiority of
German culture (everywhere bombarded by multicultural (of course, they did not
use this term) forces). The NSP attacked the Social Democratic Party (SDP),
likely as close to real "socialists" as Germany had, which they felt was in bed
with Jewery. 

[Mark]
I believe that by studying the circles of human behavior one can get a better
understanding of Quality.

[Arlo]
I agree. To be blind (especially willfully so) to the patterns of history makes
one not only susceptible to repeating them inadvertantly, but easily
manipulable to achieve that end. 

[Mark]
Quality itself may be considered amoral, its expression in human behavior (and
perhaps other things) is where morality ties in as a pointer.

[Arlo]
I would not word it this way. Quality is a moral force, but that "expression"
is different as one climbs the MOQ's levels. A virus is behaving morally (from
its vantage), and a doctor fighting it is acting morally from his vantage, a
higher level. When a virus does kill a human it is "immoral" only from the
vantage of the social and intellectual levels, from the biological level the
virus is acting perfectly morally. This may appear to be "ammorality" from a
birds eye view, but I think it better seen as "competing, or evolving, moral
responses".