[MD] Betternes - 4 levels of!

[ADRIE KINTZIGER]

Good stuff, Ron.
I need to re-read it , as it is evolving.
Adrie

2010/11/4 X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com>

> dmb says:
> > I think you both have a good point and they aren't really mutually
> exclusive
> >points. I mean, each level of static quality is superior to the one below
> it
> >precisely because it's more open to improvement. The intellectual level is
> >considered to be superior to the social level because it is less static
> and more
> >flexible. This upward movement toward greater freedom has its limits too
> of
> >course. Without static patterns nothing could last and too much freedom
> leads to
> >degeneracy and devolution. I mean, betterness has its static side too. I'd
> even
> >say betterness can be applied within the fourth level so that we can weigh
> the
> >relative merits of opposed intellectual patterns, such as we see in the
> >rejection of SOM in favor of the MOQ. The basic idea that some things are
> better
> >than others can be applied a million different ways. It guides the
> painter, the
> >poet, the politician, the philosopher and the scientists. Hell, it guides
> us in
> >the produce section of the grocery store too. Some
> >  philosophies are better than others, some cultures are better than
> others and
> >some tomatoes are better than others.
>
> Ron:
> Hello Dave,
> I think thats just about right, I think in a simple pragmatic sense of the
> meaning
> it just about covers all the bases as a complex pattern of prefferences,
> what
> else
>  could a static pattern be?
> I'm not quite sure I understand the resistance to the idea of linking the
> terms
> "betterness" with "value" and "Quality" some have.
> I mean, I have some idea of the possible reasons one may have in getting
> upset of the endeavor of seeking to define, explain and understand that,
> which we are told, may not be defineable, explainable or understandable.
> It becomes sacred, and as much one defends the purity of the idea.
> But is'nt that what all understanding of betterness IS? the endeavor
> of  defining, explaining and understanding the dynamic?
>
>
> Horse said:
>
>
> >  Hi Dan, Ron, David, Andre et alia
>
> I'll take a wild stab in the dark here and guess that what Ron referred
> to was something that was about on MD several years ago.
>
> Inorganic - Order is better than Chaos
> Organic - Alive is better than Dead
> Social - Together is better than Alone
> Intellectual - Reason is better than Dogma
>
> Each of these expresses an implied reference to the level below as Dave
> points out.
>
> There's probably a 5th idea of betterness as well according to the MoQ -
> Dynamic is better than Static
>
> I've also slapped this into a new thread for convenience.
>
> Ron:
> Thanks Horse,
> Thats a pretty fair assessment of my aim. I think you are right in that
> last
> statement, which is why I apealed to all to reflect on what exactly that
> means
> to our group. What does it mean to state that Dynamic experience is
> "better"?
> the discussion steming from this inquirey has often gotten heated in the
> context
> of pragmatic truth. It hinted at correspondance theory to some.
> The idea that what we mean when we say that something is "true" is what
> we mean when we say that it is better, anchors the entire idea that value
> is more empirical than scientific materialism.
>
> This brings everything back to Phaedrus, Plato's Phaedrus, the youth
> Socrates was trying to persuade that better rhetorical arguements were
> those
> based in philosophy, the love of wisdom. Socrates reasons were that those
> who loved wisdom, seek the betterness in experience. The practice of
> reflection of the good in life lends greater rhetorical power, because lets
> face
> it
> greater explanitory power, is, greater rhetorical power.
>
> Thank you both for your replies
>
> -Ron
>
>
>
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