[MD] Intellectual Level

[plattholden at gmail.com]

Hi Mark.

Good question, so hope you don't mind if I butt in with a possible answer. 
You're familiar I'm sure with "information theory," and probably know a lot 
more about than I do which is next to nothing. But at every level it seems for 
anything to happen there must be communication between what we regards as 
separate entities, whether particles, atoms, animals, or people. So surrounding 
all levels is a cacophony of signals in countless languages. So information is 
a sea in which the levels swim, to use a poor metaphor.

As you go up the levels from inorganic to intellectual, information becomes 
increasingly usable by increasingly complex beings, humans being at the top of 
the complexity pyramid. At the social and intellectual levels information is 
turned by humans from raw dits and dots into symbols representing symbols in a 
cascade of analogues which are exploited endlessly to gain power over the lower 
levels as well as kindred human beings (think reason and rationalization). 
Where the intellectual level comes to fore is when humans believe they are 
intelligent enough to understand everything about everything (think science and 
"critical thinking").

If you now ask what surrounds information we begin falling into the black hole 
where no one willingly goes, at least no one who worships at the Church of 
Reason and Pragmatism. 

This is off the top-of-my-head-out-of-the-blue sort of thinking which is an 
easy to shoot down. But, maybe there's a pony in there somewhere. What 
say you?    

Platt

On 4 Nov 2010 at 8:56, 118 wrote:

Hi Marsh,
I like this, a process approach.  Defining though interaction and
congealment.

I would pose the following for discussion, which would be more of a boundary
approach.  That is, what is it that is forming the intellectual level from
the outside?  This would be similar to defining a lake by its boundaries
instead of by the cohesive interaction of water molecules through hydrogen
bonding and other principles.  Such an approach can also be taken in
descriptions of evolution.  That is, defining the morphology of species, not
by the expression of DNA itself, but by looking at the environmental factors
which control such expression.

So, one approach as you put is to describe the process of abstract concept
manipulation.  The other approach would be to describe something like Group
Consciousness (like Carl Jung), that provides boundaries for the expression
of the intellectual level.  Of course such boundaries can have grey areas,
and are up to interpretation.  So, my question, is what do you see the
intellectual level filling (for lack of a better word)?

This is not a trick or leading question, since I do not have a ready
comeback.  I am simply opening it up for discussion.

Cheers,
Mark

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 7:35 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
> Greetings,
>
> My understanding/interpretation of the Intellectual Level is based on
> reification. The fourth level is comprised of static patterns of value such
> as theology, mathematics, science and philosophy. The way that these
> patterns function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational
> analysis and manipulation.  Reification decontextualizes...  Intellectual
> patterns process from a subject/object point-of-view creating false
> boundaries that give the concept an illusion  of having independence as a
> "thing" or an "object of analysis."  The fourth level is a formalized
> subject/object level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational,
> objective knowledge, which is free from the taint of any subjectivity like
> emotions, inclinations, fears and compulsions in order to pursue, study and
> research in an unbiased and rational manner.
>
>
> Marsha
>
> ___
>
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