[MD] Betternes - 4 levels of!

[ADRIE KINTZIGER]

You are moving up to the use of third party scripts , handed over in the
background of the listnoise.

I the distance , Mark, i can hear the orchestra playing on the deck of the
sinking
Titanic,....

You are on your own now, big boy,follow the light.

2010/11/8 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com>

> > Hi Platt,
> > Thank you for your patient response.  I am here to discuss, not to
> dictate.
> >  I agree, one must have a concept in order to discuss anything.  Rational
> > thought is symbol manipulation.  Such symbols are also concepts.  I also
> > fully understand the ineffability of dynamic quality, and do not think
> that
> > such a thing is an insurmountable stumbling block.  I am not bashing
> dynamic
> > quality by any stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > All concepts require some kind of jump as to their acceptance.  We may
> not
> > realize this is what we are doing most of the time, due to
> indoctrination.
> >  But such is the nature of agreement.  Even Buddhist philosophy which is
> > considered highly intellectual requires heavy indoctrination.  This is
> not a
> > bad thing, since some concepts are not necessarily intuitive, and require
> > much thinking along the appropriate lines (or path).  Such thinking is
> > provided conceptually.  In the end, an awareness dawns that becomes
> > fulfilling.  Operating through that awareness can provide much meaning
> and
> > happiness.
> >
> > A rational inquiry into dynamic quality must go through this process.
>  The
> > theistic camp often resorts (though lack of training, or for expediency)
> to
> > saying you just have to believe (become aware of) for conversion.
>  However,
> > for those looking, there are plenty of rational arguments for the
> existence
> > of God, some based on paradoxes.  The point is, MOQ, (IMO) states that
> > rational arguments are needed to support the concept of dynamic quality.
> >  One must assemble this from all sides that can provide insight.
>  Building a
> > metaphysics is not easy, and as Pirsig notes, such construction can be
> self
> > destructive due to the nature of such inquiry.
> >
> > Through such rational leading, the individual becomes aware of dynamic
> > quality, and the actual arguments do not matter so much once the switch
> is
> > flipped (if you will), unless, of course, he wants to convince another.
>  In
> > my opinion, Phaedrus underwent a sudden epiphany and is trying to convert
> it
> > to words.  He does this remarkably well as is evidenced by the success of
> > ZMM.  Lila is more for those who have already got it.
> >
> > It is this awareness that we are after, getting there can be hard, but
> must
> > be supportive and not doctrinal.  Using analogies to other forms of
> thought
> > is appropriate if that helps create such awareness.  There are thousands
> > upon thousands of pages of Vedic thought.  These are metaphysical
> arguments.
> >  In the end however, one must bring in Gods.  The belief of such things
> is
> > arrived at through rational discussion, which becomes more abstract the
> > farther you get into it.  Once accepted, it becomes a whole different
> ball
> > game.
> >
> > To begin dynamic quality with the dictate that we cannot describe it, is,
> > in my opinion, not a very fruitful one.  There will not be many takers
> that
> > can accept such a thing in the same way that many do not subscribe to the
> > dictates of religion.  All of these are a search for a personally
> meaningful
> > reality.  Such a reality can be arrived at through rational persuasion.
> >  That is the nature of metaphysics, of all kinds.  Even Kierkegaard whom
> I
> > regard to be an amazing thinker understands that jumps are necessary.
>  One
> > must prepare for the jump, however, and not be told to do so by a drill
> > sergeant.  Jumps happen spontaneously once the brain is ready.  Some get
> > there easier than others, some have more need than others. However, many
> of
> > us do not like being told what to think.
> >
> > Let me emphasize that this is not MOQ bashing, Quality was part of what
> > saved my life.  I arrived at it in the most desperate way.  This is also
> not
> > Pirsig bashing, the tools of metaphysics are what he uses.  It is simply
> an
> > opinion by one person who is interested in the spread of MOQ as a useful
> > metaphysics.  If one sees quality in everything, tolerance and
> appreciation
> > result.  It is a move away from negative thinking to one full of
> surprises
> > and miracles.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >>
> >
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