[MD] Plains Talk and Pragmatism

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Matt Kundert
<pirsigaffliction at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> One way to think about the relationship between the European West's
> relationship to other cultural manifestations, like American Indians, is
> to 1) take into account what happens when one moves from a primary
> oral culture (i.e. one which has no written symbolic manipulation) to a
> post-literacy culture; 2) use that to help explain the relationship
> between myth and history, narrative and theory; and 3) use those
> reflections to help discern what "religion" is.
>
> My suspicion is that "anti-theism" is peculiar to the European West in
> many respects because it is a cultural manifestation only possible after
> we were able to off-load into the written text many of the noetic
> responsibilities then only capable of being held in oracular form (e.g.,
> dealing with the limits of memory).  In other words, "god" and "religion"
> were very different concepts for primary oral cultures ("primitive"), and
> asking them to be against god-talk would be like asking people to be
> against education and thinking.  Doesn't make sense.
>
> However, it might make a lot of sense for the European West.

Hi Matt

I'd have to say that theism is also particular to Europeans when it
pertains to the Native Americans. They did not have a concept of a
Western God before the arrrival of the Europeans:

"This, Phaedrus thought, was why little children are usually quicker
to perceive Dynamic Quality than old people, why beginners are usually
quicker than experts, why primitive people are sometimes quicker than
those of "advanced" cultures. American Indians are exceptionally
skilled at holding to the ever-changing center of things. That is the
real reason they speak and act without ornamentation. It violates
their mystic unity. This moving and acting and talking in accord with
the Great Spirit and almost nothing else has been the ancient center
of their lives.

“Their term manito is often used interchangeably with "God" by whites
who usually think all religion is theistic and by Indians themselves
who don't make a big deal out of any verbal distinctions. But as David
Mandelbaum noted in his book The Plains Cree, "The term manito
primarily referred to the Supreme Being but also had many other
usages. It was applied to manifestations of skill, fortune, blessing,
luck, to any wondrous occurrence. It connoted any phenomenon that
transcended the run of everyday experience."

“In other words, "Dynamic Quality." [LILA]

Dan comments:

It seems wrong somehow to label Native Americans as either theistic,
atheistic, or anti-theistic. Their concept of the Great Spirit was
completely foreign to the European missionaries. In order to stamp out
any trace of the old religion, Native Americans were shut away on
reservations, made to convert to Christianity by outlawing all the old
tradtions, and even forbade to speak their own language.

As far as being against education and thinking, there are a number of
contributors who seem just that, so it is good to see you again, Matt.

Thank you,

Dan