[MD] Is this the inadequacy of the MOQ?

[Alexander Jarnroth]

Hello again Mark.

I would, myself, term language a social pattern, in the spirit of semiotics.
But of course, what language does, is often "expressing" intellectual
patterns, but then language is nothing but a vehicle for these patterns.
Sometimes you know what you wish to say, but you don't really know how to
express it to get it right. Perhaps you finish by saying "But you know what
I mean, don't you? And you know me, you know I would never say something
like THAT" (and then pointing to some particular interpretation).
But often, when you can't express a thought, in your own mind, you don't
really have a "grasp" of the thought. As I mentioned earlier, the word used
in Swedish and German is "begrepp"/"begriff" and the word being
"begripa"/"begriffen". This root grepp/griff is semantically and
etymologically the same as "grasp" and "grab". A "begriff" is a "term" or a
"concept". So you can't really get hold on a thought which you can't
express. But when you don't know how to express it, you can't really force
yourself to. It's first when suddenly your mind tells you - that you know.
And it could tell you anytime.

One interesting thing concerning consciousness, is: can it control anything
going on in the mind at all, or is just passive? I'm not at all sure about
this. Sometimes I think "Yes, like a governor in a cybernetic feedback
control system" - but sometimes not "No, it's just a passive beholder".

/A


-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] För 118
Skickat: den 11 november 2010 18:36
Till: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Ämne: Re: [MD] Is this the inadequacy of the MOQ?

Hi A,

I agree that that the eyes of Tao have much interpretation.  I think I
understand the emergent concept that you are talking about.  I would say
that language can also be considered a translation of an archetype.  Once
language is pointed to as the archetype of intellect it may appear to have
some control over that which is creating it.  For me, language is a
transmission of archetypes.  As such, it is one step (or two steps if you
include thought as another step) from the personal archetype.  As many
state, it is a pointing finger providing direction of the speaker's
awareness to the recipient (or archetype if you wish).  But indeed, as the
basis of form of an intellectual level it could be considered an archetype
of sorts.

In my opinion, modern intellect stems from mythology which is a more
pictorial form of expression of awareness.  I would point to Cassirer's
treatment, especially his interpretation of the use of symbols and where
they came from.  A translation (which I always find more readable than the
source) can be found at:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cassirer/

Of course this is language used to translate language, which may be three
steps removed.

As we have discussed in this forum, language has direct interpretation
issues, but its power lies in the opening of new ideas.  Some of this is
created by its nebulosity.  I am glad you brought up archetype, it brings me
back to Jung who I am still learning from.

Thanks,
Mark



On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 1:36 AM, Alexander Jarnroth <
alexander.jarnroth at comhem.se> wrote:

> In reply to Mark:
>
> Hello Mark
>
> What I like with the Yin-Yang is that there are those "spots" of the 
> opposite within the two. On the dark side, it reminds me of a full 
> moon; on the light side, a solar eclipse.
> I think that the consciousness is a kind of "emergent" in the abstract 
> system of the brain - but that does not really matter. What could be 
> said about it? What is the "quality" OF consciousness; or can it only 
> be filled with quality?
> I think that thought, especially verbalized thought, should be the 
> archetype of intellectual static patterns.
>
> /A
>
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org/md/archives.html