[MD] Intellectual Level

[Platt Holden]

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:

> Hi Platt
>
>
> On 15/11/2010 21:50, Platt Holden wrote:
>
>> Hi Horse,
>>
>> All words, numbers, punctuation and other aspects of language are
>> imaginary
>> symbols, imaginary meaning "not real."
>>
>
> This is a problem of SOM - not MoQ. In MoQ terms symbols are as real as
> rocks or dogs. But they are not real in the same way because they are
> different patterns of value. But they are 'real' nonetheless.
>
>
>  Or as semanticist S.I. Hayakawa
>> wrote in his seminal book, "Language in Thought and Action:"
>>
>> "The habitual confusion of symbols with things symbolized, whether on the
>> part of individuals or societies, is serious enough at all levels of
>> culture
>> to provide a perennial human problem. The symbol is not the thing
>> symbolized; the word is not the thing, the map is not the territory it
>> stands for."
>>
>
> Which is why the MoQ distinguishes between different levels of patterns of
> value. And the Intellectual level is so powerful because it can create
> concepts which have no existence except at it's own level and which are
> neither subject nor object and relate neither to subject nor object.
>
>
>  In Lila's Child, Pirsig defines the intellect level as "manipulation of
>> symbols." Note 25.
>>
>
> Or in other words 'thinking'.
>
> So will you answer my questions?
>
>
> Have Subjects and Objects now become imaginary symbols.
> How can Objects (as per SOM) be imaginary symbols?
> Is a rock or a plant or a pig an imaginary symbol?
>
> Hi Horse,

As I stated and now repeat, all words like "Subjects" and "Objects" and
"levels" are imaginary symbols.

The word "Objects" is an imaginary symbol.

The words "a rock", "a plant" and "a pig" are all imaginary symbols.

I this doesn't answer your questions, I don't know what will.



> As it was Pirsig who created SOM (as you have stated) could you show us
> where he says that it is it's own level or where he states that it is the
> level of imaginary symbols.
>

I have already shown you Note 25 where he says the intellectual level is the
level of manipulation of symbols. In Lila he describes metaphysics as like a
menu without food, i.e. imaginary. If you want to assuage your hunger by
eating the menu, good luck with that.

Platt

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>
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