[MD] a-theism and atheism

[118]

Hi Ham,
I have yet to provide an answer to you on our previous discussion which I
will get to momentarily.  In the meantime I will be annoying and interrupt
your conversation with Tim.  I choose the paragraph below.  Which I will put
into context by the questions before.


[Ham, previously]:
>
>> Quality to me means the worth or character of an observed person,
>> thing, or event.  This business of treating Quality as a noun is
>> metaphysically useless, unless you believe that quality can stand
>> by itself, which it can't.
>>
>
> [Tim]:
>
>> This comes off very strong, and I don't know that you intended it that
>> way.  Maybe...
>>
>
> [Ham]

Apparently it doesn't come off "strong" enough, since the Pirigians don't
> seem to understand that "Quality" does not stand alone but is a relative
> value placed on an experience.  Value and quality are relative by degree and
> in comparison with other objects experienced.  Notice that we normally use
> quality and value prepositionally: we say "the quality OF my car; the value
> OF money," etc.  This doesn't mean that quality or value is intrinsic to the
> thing itself, but rather that we sense value in the process of experiencing
> it.  Without this sensibility which IS inherent in us, there would be no
> value.  We are the sensible agents who bring value into the world
> objectively.
>
>
>> [Mark]
Ham, I understand that you propose that a subject is necessary to realize
quality or value, and that such a thing does not exist before such
realization.  However, I believe you can also look at this another way.
 This would be the realization of something that is already there.  Now this
may sound a bit far fetched to you, but hear me out.

There is no doubt that everything is not the same.  We can ask why is
everything not the same and appears differentiated?  I find it hard to
imagine that such difference does not exist prior to our coming on board,
but that is also a philosophical argument.  For the time being let's just
say that for whatever reason (a big bang, or somebody's hand) such
difference exists.  The fact that two apples are different implies something
separating them.  This separation I would call Quality.  Quality does not
exist in the apples, it is an expression of what separates them (higher,
lower, or whatever).  With me so far?

Now, we tap into that Quality and become "aware" through it of which apple
to choose.  This would imply that the difference already exists and that we
become subject to it.  Because we are not all alike, the brain may react
differently to this impingement of Quality, and we may choose different
apples.  This still does not mean that Quality does not exist.  This also
does not mean that Quality is relative.  I would propose that it is
relational.  Things exist relationally whether we see them or not.

To think about Quality we have to ignore the objects which it separates.  We
have to ask what is separating the objects.  I do not think that we create
that separation and that difference between.  The fact that we prefer one
thing over another means that Quality has some kind of drive to it.  I
suppose this would be called dynamic quality.  Static quality, if such a
thing exists, would be the polar sides of what Quality is separating.

So this is an extreme simplification of what is happening because choices
are ongoing every moment whether we know it or not.  We only pay attention
to the big ones that actually enter into our simplified intelligence.
 Hopping of a stove is a good example of a choice, or which foot to start
with on a walk and how far to step.  Or even deciding when to fall asleep (I
mean exact moment).

Now, I am still trying to figure out how to explain this, and what I present
above is just a bunch of words.  Let me say, that an awareness of Quality
(as I see it) is possible.  Such awareness may not have the same impact on
you as it does on me, but it does describe my relational existence here.  I
do not have to consider the need to actively differentiate, because I am
guided, most choices are done before I think about them.  Sometime I
go against what I feel to be the direction of Quality, such is the problem
with thinking too much.  In such cases I tend to suffer in some way.  Some
times such a thing is necessary to overcome a bump in Quality.  And now I
have gone too far.  I am not a determinist by any means.

So long and don't forget the fish.
Mark

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