[MD] Plains Talk and Pragmatism

[John Carl]

Hey Ron,

Sorry I'm so slow sometimes.  I can flippantly toss off a quick response
sometimes, but others, not so much.  This is one of yours calls for some
deliberation and work before I'll have enough peace of mind to hit the send
button:

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:55 PM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> "  Is the MoQ, absolutely anti-theistic?"
>
>
> Ron:
> Any sort of theism enters into a rationalist arguement.
>

John:

Right there, for instance, I had to consider what you mean.  Any
argumentation must be rational, and if theism is being argued, then it must
submit to rationality.  Got it.  Agree.

Ron:


> MoQ is empirical for the most part, but it is interesting
> how it places experience before concepts yet terms
> experience as synonomous
> with the concept of betterness.
>
>
John:

Ordinarily we wouldn't assign either betterness or experience the label of
"god", But if the claim is that experience itself offers an intrinsic
betterness as it's fundamental feature, then that's certainly a god-like
bent.  However I agree that there are connotative associations which are
unhelpful in applying the label.

I believe my point, which I've firmly touted from the beginning, is that
Pirsig's use of "anti-theistic" is entirely upon the term, the labeling, not
the metaphysics itself.

Ron:


> Yet the concept of betterness seems to be superior,
> and for several reasons, first of all there is alot of
>  baggage associated with the term "god" that has
> little to do with the expansion of reason. It causes
> confusion about the central philosophic aims.
>
>
John:

Right!  It's "in this regard" that the MoQ is antitheistic.  I agree
completely.
Agreement is easy.  Explaining it to Dan is tough.

Ron:

Second, it's metaphysical structure places dynamic
> Quality before the concepts of God or Quality, making
> even the question of theism moot.
>
>
John:  God is a quality concept. Betterness is more fundamental than any
conceptualization.  Again, I agree, and see this as the main heart, the main
value of the MoQ.  It's in making Value the metaphysical fundament.

The MoQ is non-theistic, gives me peace of mind.  The MoQ is anti-theistic
doesn't.

Ron:


> Being radically empirical, MoQ picks the best from theism.
>
> it's about picking the best out of anything.
>
> So give a thought as to your reasons
>
>

Well, I think I've given you my thoughts and my reasons.  Anytime.


If I had to pick the best out of anything, I'd pick you, and this whole
dialogue.


John