[MD] Is this the inadequacy of the MOQ?

[John Carl]

Tim, don't listen to Andre.  He's furiously misconstruing the historical
facts of the matter in order to further an agenda.

Tim:
> I think maybe it helps to keep other people's concepts out of DQ, but as
> you live, I think you NEED certain concepts to make it into the utter
> present somehow.
>
>
John:

This is absolutely correct.  Every moment of your normal "now", is informed
by ideas gathered from your past,  with which you choose and create your
choices for the future.  If you could somehow make this present moment of
experience "pure", then it'd end up being nothing at all.



> Andre:
> I have no idea what you mean by this Tim. you need concepts to make it into
> the utter present... somehow? You are making things very complicated. You
> sound like a person with a sense of the absolute as its guide and
> desperately want to make the concepts fit somehow...the present. This is
> getting very messy and one of the reasons why William James was furiously
> against Hegel, Royce and all the Absolutists.
>
>
>
John:

If you have no idea, Andre, then maybe you should listen (read) instead of
talking (writing)  about what you don't know.  Royce and James were both
skeptical of Hegel, and even Pirsig was enthusiastic in the end, of the one
Absolute Idealist that he encountered in the Copleston Annotations - FH
Bradly.

And saying James was "furiously against" his life long friend and sparring
partner Royce, is just slanderously evil and immoral.  Shame!



Tim:
>
> Do we agree that Pirsig would have hoped that others would find higher
> Quality from his efforts?
>
> Andre:
> Well, yes and no! As Pirsig suggests (in response to the question of
> recommending to someone to read ZMM): 'There is a possibility it will make
> you a better person. If the next question is:'What do you mean by better?'
> The answer should be. 'You'll have to read ZMM and LILA to find out'. ( LC,
> Annot: 105)
>
>

John:

How is this any kind of response Andre?  Are you saying that if one
memorizes ZAMM and Lila by rote, and repeat its aphorisms endlessly in a
kind of quotation-mantra, that you've somehow arrived and there is no
further creativity or re-formulation necessary?

This is getting ridiculous.  There are people on this list who evidently
want to demote the Metaphysics of Quality into the Metaphysics of parrotry.

No wonder there's been no real evolutionary development around here and so
many of the best and most creative minds have been driven away by such
drivel.