[MD] Quantum Enigma

[MarshaV]

Greetings Ham,  

On Oct 2, 2010, at 2:05 AM, Ham Priday wrote:
> 
>> Marsha:
>> How I understand conscious awareness is as pure process,
>> 100% immediate experience, and the moment one tries to
>> analyze it, it is gone.  All other entities - I, knower, self,
>> individual, me,  etc. -  are _conceptually constructed_ and
>> have no independent existence.  They are a  conglomerate
>> ever-changing, impermanent, interdependent, inorganic,
>> biological, social and intellectual static patterns of value.
> 
> Ham:
> Marsha, you are attempting to describe the subjective self as if it were an objective entity, which of course is impossible.  Yes, "raw" experience is "immediate", but it hardly represents 100% of conscious awareness.  There is also the memory function which links self-awareness to the past and makes experience a continuum; the emotive response which is the psycho-biological reaction to what is experienced; and intellection which interprets the data as a rational construct.  'I', 'Knower', 'Individual', and 'Me' are not different entities but simply the labels we use to identify the Self.
> 
> That standard definition, which even you must be tired of by now, paints a fuzzy picture of self-awareness as if to demean its credibility--which of course is your intent.  I still feel this is somewhat disingenuous on your part.  Certainly we cannot objectivize, quantify, measure, or localize conscious awareness as we can, say, a rock or a tree.  Conversely, however, what would the rock or tree be if there was no awareness of it?  As Pirsig insisted, experience is primary; and since experience is known only to awareness, all we really know about objective existence is that it is patterned from sensible value.

Marsha:
I am putting aside the experience of raw data (unpatterned experience) and talking about conscious awareness as in mindfulness.  Mindfulness is a technique easily learned and strengthened through practice.  It's the experience of being here-now without constructing an associated past or future.  In the mindfulness experience there is no building a subjective self for it is all _process_, all immediate experience.  Pattern recognition seems limited to the function of the sense organ.  It is _habit_ that associates these immediate experiences with an individual, independent self, or its various labels, rather than understanding that it is a flow of experiences.  _Habit_ that when conscious awareness (mindfulness) stops then the making of meaning begins (internal story-telling).  It is the conceptual constructing, making of meaning, that creates the independent self.  It is an after-experience add-on.  I am suggesting that in mindfulness it is obvious that experiences comes first, and that associating now-experiences to a 'self' is a secondary habit.   Experience is primary!  Self-building is secondary.   


Thanks Ham,  



Marsha 




 
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