[MD] Emptiness & Quantum Mechancics

[Andre Broersen]

  dmb to Marsha in response to Andre:


Somehow, Marsha has construed all this as a form of anti-intellectualism 
and foolish nihilism. And she does this right at the point where the 
MOQ's moral hierarchy achieves it's highest point. Instead of using the 
MOQ incorporation of DQ into our intellectual evolution, instead of 
using undefined Quality to protect the creative cutting edge of science 
and philosophy, she uses it to kill all intellectual patterns, to kill 
them completely. If I understand the MOQ rightly, this is not only 
incorrect, it is also immoral.


It all adds up to a big batch of very unpleasant and useless nonsense. 
It's NOT just that it's jarring and bad the way it would be jarring and 
bad to say two plus two equals five. It also paints empty, nihilistic 
picture of reality that literally makes me sick to my stomach. It's not 
just stupid. It's nauseating.

Andre:
It should come as no surprise to say that dmb is correct (as usual) and 
that his understanding the moq is, likewise, in keeping with its spirit!

I have expressed, previously, a strong objection to Marsha's 
interpretation of Pirsig's (the MOQ's)
translation of the 'famous poem' in LILA especially the 'kill all 
intellectual patterns' meaning.

But let's not focus on Marsha alone. I think she represents millions of 
people, and on this list, is
the mouthpiece of many. Marsha tries to 'getting at the MOQ through 
Buddhism' which does have the definite sound of 'new- age' approach to 
me and does nothing for the MOQ nor for Pirsig's achievement.

AS Pirsig himself said: 'If you're looking for enlightenment rather than 
scholarly knowledge, you'd better read this ( Buddhism plain and simple, 
Steve Hagan). The MOQ is about 'scholarly knowledge'...and 
Buddhism...not one without the other. Their fundamental connecting 
platform is experience.

In western interpretations it suggests dealing with the rat-race by 
doing relaxation exercises, spending the perfect holiday on the 'Jungle 
Queen' and putting up with your own misery by tuning into Dr. Phill. and 
letting yourself be psycho-analysed into making life bearable in the 
misery of living it. (Freud actually suggested this)

The ersatz, bogey, pretentious crap gets to me sometimes.

Radical empiricism is not easy as any Zennie will tell you. The attempt 
at creating a bridge, a meeting between East and West is not easy.(read 
Northrop) The fusing of the scientific approach with immediate 
experience remains a challenge for both East and West. The MOQ can be 
seen as such an attempt and I believe it is a high quality attempt...the 
best yet offered in not thinking about self-preservation at all cost (at 
the individual, regional, national and international levels as well as 
all the discipline levels). There are more important (higher quality) 
considerations to be given priority.

It is to be undertaken seriously and not whimsically.

The Dalai Lama is taking it seriously by finding connecting points of 
Buddhism with ( Western) science. Both can and will enrich each other, 
keep each other 'straight' and 'up-to-date'.

This combination will have a better chance of succeeding than throwing 
reifications, relativations, and 'my unpatterned experience was better 
than yours' pubescent retorts.