[MD] the grand design , Hawking

[John Carl]

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:19 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <parser666 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Stephen Hawking/mlodinov, the Grand design
>
> "There is no picture or theory-independant concept of reality."
>
>
Is he conflating "picture" with "theory independent concept" with his "or"?
 I mean, it sure looks that way, but how can this be possible?  What is a
picture?  What is a "theory indepependent concept" look like, when it's at
home?  enquiring minds want to know.

Because from my armchair qb position, it appears to me that there is no
possible way for any concept to be "theory independent", since all
conceptualization requires contextual circumstances and choices that are
theory-dependent. And Picture means a mental picture.  I've got a mental
picture of reality right now.  What does he mean that there is no picture of
reality.  I picture reality as that which keeps my beer cold.  Reality - if
you have to ask, you don't deserve any.



If you're gonna quote his drivel, at us Adrie, I hope you're ready to defend
it.  Right away I got lots of aspersions to cast at any holder of realism as
a non-serious thinker.  And you don't offer much evidence so far to allay my
concerns.  Philosophically speaking, that is.


John


>
> zebras fighting in the parking garage, all other observer who look
>
> will measure the same properties, and the herd will have those
> properties whether anyone observes them or not, in philosophy
> that belief is called realism.(*)1"
> --------------------
>
>
> (** perfect interpretation of the Copenhagen agreement, staying
>
> away from was in or out reality, only talking about the properties
>
> of the reality spoken of , not reality itself.**) Adrie.
>
>
> now Pirsig in Coplestons annotations.
>
> "I think that in philosophy when you make a statement, you should
>
> let it rise or fall as it is tested against reality.  You should
>
> not make a statement and then fudge a little here and make an
>
> exception there and bend of meaning elsewhere in order to
>
> accommodate objections as they come in."
>
> -----------------------------------------
> No comment , speaks for himself/itself.
> some comments
>
>
> He (Hawking) makes a very nice Mercatormaps South-Pole analogy,
> a South pole/pole analogy, and a very congruent analogy
> for the iron filings, all used by Pirsig what? 20 years earlier?
>
> The Grand Desing to declare philosophy a dead end, and showing to
> be a Pirsigacolite at the same time,<< great.
>
> *I blaim the stolen parts on Mlodinov(Adrie)
>
>
>
> If somebody wants to read the book , i have the pdf, just ask.
> real goodie, stunning quality, very sharp on Feynman's patterns.
>
> greetz, Adrie
>
>
>
no thanks.  Feel free to send anything you think sounds at all sensible, and
we'll see.