[MD] Step One

[John Carl]

Hello Dan,

You're mostly right, so it's a shock when you can be so wrong.

Dan comments:
>
> The shock that Phaedrus is talking about is that moment you discover
> that you don't know what you think you know. The student knows what
> quality is. Everyone knows what quality is. But when confronted with
> actually explaining what quality is, they fail, just as you have
> failed, John. The shock isn't in what is said. The shock occurs when
> the student discovers that they cannot explain what everyone knows.
>
> The reason for this seems to have something to do with ego-climbing
> versus selfless climbing. You are clowning around with the question,
> just as Phaedrus was clowning around with the mountain.



Here's where you're wrong.  You've confused my style with my motivation.



> You are trying
> to best the mountain for reasons of your own instead of sensing the
> holiness of the quest(ion). You can do better but for reasons of your
> own, you just don't care enough.
>

Holiness Dan?  Should I light some candles or something?  Not my style.  I'm
more along the lines of the holy goof.  Holiness freezes.  Holiness strikes
 fear and trembling and knocks us to our knees, incapacitated, unmoving.

Unwriting.

For what if what we said was silly or wrong?  What if my words are rejected?
 When I care enough to write, when I care enough to think of words to
communicate myself, I'm taking a risk.  A serious risk!  And serious things
can only be treated with lightness.  Climbing the mountain is tough enough.
 Bearing great burdens will not help me climb.

You say I don't care enough!  I cared enough to try.  I cared enough to make
the attempt.  I care enough to risk getting my paper flung back in my face
by a scowling instructor.

I care Dan.

More than you'll ever know.  I'm sitting in a lonely, crowded house.  All
the good stuff has been ripped out and taken away and all the junk that
nobody knows what to do with - junk from 5 kids and 20 years of living - is
piled around and inundates my existence.  But nevertheless I have this time,
this precious little piece of time.  Three months.  Then I have to either
have something to show for my time, or give it up for good and stick to
being a truck driver for the rest of my life. All my communication with the
world will be one-way, me listening to the radio.   And you don't think I
care?  How could I not?  I care enough to try.  Sorry it's not good enough.
 I'll try some more.  Meanwhile, don't you want to be a writer?  Show us how
it's done.  Write of your own good mind, 500 words addressing the question,
what is Quality in thought and statement.  I'm sure it'll be better than
mine, but I don't care about ego, I care about writing. I want to see it.




> >John:
>


>   A connection
> > beyond mere grammer's purview or control.
>
> Dan:
> See what I mean? You are ego-climbing.
>
>
John:

No Dan.  I don't see how seeking connection with words is "ego climbing".
 In fact, I'd say it's a description of just the opposite.  That to connect
with an other person, I have to think about them.

One of my heroes, describes it thusly:

"Meaning is uncertain;  therefore I must constantly fine-tune my language
and work at reinterpreting the words I hear.  I try to understand what the
other person says to me.  All language is more or less a riddle to be
figured out; it is like interpreting a text that has many possible
meanings.  In my effort at understanding and interpretation, I establish
definitions, and finally  a meaning.


The thick haze of discourse produces meaning.


All of intellectual life (and I use the word "all" advisedly) even that of
specialist in the most exact sciences, is based on these instabilities,
failures to understand, and errors in interpretation, which we must find a
way to go beyond and overcome.


Mistaking a person's language keeps me from "taking" the person--from taking
him prisoner.


We are in the presence of an infinitely and unexpectedly rich tool, so that
the tiniest phrase unleashes an entire polyphonic gamut of meaning, The
ambiguity of language, and even its ambivalence and its contradiction,
between the moment it is spoken and the moment it is received produce
extremely intense activities.  Without such activities, we would be ants or
bees, and our drama and tragedy would quickly be dried up and empty.


Between the moment of speech and the moment of reception are born symbol,
metaphor and analogy.


Through language I lay hold of two completely different objects.  I bring
them together, establishing between them a relationship of similarity or
even identity.  In this manner I come to know this distant, unknown object,
through its resemblance.


It becomes intelligible to me, because through language I have brought it
near this other one that I know well.  Tis an astonishing process, and
logically a foolish one.  It is obviously an indefensible operation, yet
there it is, utterly successful, utterly enlightening."

You think Ellul is just "clowning around" here, Dan?


Dan:
> John, sense the holiness of the mountain and you will see that
> explanations have nothing to do with quality. That is the shock that
> you are refusing to see. Your ego is in the way.
>

John:

Are you sure Dan?  Because earlier, in that  ZAMM quote of yours, Pirsig
said it was almost impossible to tell the difference between the holy
climbers and the ego climbers.  So it makes me leery of external judgements
and I'd like to be really, really sure before I go throw myself off a cliff
or whatever.  Perhaps it's rather that Ego is in the way.  There is Ego
throwing up walls between us, and since you're so sure it's mine, that
proves to me its yours.

Ego can be tricky, Dan.

I think I'll try step Two.  I think I'll keep climbing this mountain.  I may
be doing it all wrong, with my clowning, but if you ask me, the only way you
get to the top is by enjoying the process.



> >John:
> >  I'd rather sacrifice an 'A" than screw up  good rhetoric with padding.
>
> Dan:
> This ain't no school and there ain't no grades. There is only the
> selfless sense of holiness. Let that guide your writing and the answer
> will blossom without effort.
>
>
Gee Dan, that's what I thought I was doing.  But my "blossom without effort"
looks like nothin' but weeds to you.  What can I say? That sounds like a
trap of some kind.  What can I do?

Go on to step two.