[MD] What's Emptiness?

[X Acto]

Riggggght,

it s about being your "self"

and droping all the "enlightened" bullshit


getting all caught up in experience to the fault of ignoring

community and social relationships is really a very selfish

self absorbed act.

Marsha seems to be on vacation Dave, she's stated that

often enough. I think thats what drives most of her statements

and defines much of her intent here.


just thinking aloud








----- Original Message ----
From: david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 6:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] What's Emptiness?



Marsah said to dmb:

Is this a claim of refutation?  If so, refuting what and how?


dmb says:
Yes, it's a refutation. I sincerely hope you'll think about it and come to your 
own conclusions about what and how.

But here's a hint. The key words are "meditation" and "clap-trap". 

"Maybe when Phaedrus got this metaphysics all put together people would see that 
the value-centered reality it described wasn't just a wild thesis off into some 
new direction but was a connecting link to a part of themselves which had always 
been suppressed by cultural norms and which needed opening up. He hoped so. 
...Phaedrus hoped this Quality metaphysics was something that would get past the 
immune system and show that American Indian mysticism is not something alien 
from American culture. It's a deep submerged hidden root of it." (Lila, page 
408)


> On Oct 14, 2010, at 4:55 PM, david buchanan wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > "The MOQ says that what sometimes accidentally occurs in an insane asylum but 
>occurs deliberately in a mystic retreat is a natural human process called dhyana 
>in Sanskrit. In our culture dhyana is ambiguously called 'meditation'. Just as 
>mystics traditionally seek monasteries and ashrams and heritages as retreats 
>into isolation and silence, so are the insane treated by isolation in places of 
>relative calm and austerity and silence.... 
>
> > This Western treatment of dhyana is a beautiful example of how the static 
>patterns of a culture can make something not exist, even when it does exist. 
>People in this culture are hypnotized into thinking they do not meditate when in 
>fact they do.
> > Dhyana was what this boat was all about. It's what Phaedrus had bought it 
>for, a place to be alone and quiet and inconspicuous and able to settle down 
>into himself and be what he really was and not what he was thought to be or 
>supposed to be. In doing this he didn't think he was putting this boat to any 
>special purpose. That's what the purpose of boats like this has always been ... 
>and seaside cottages too ... and lake cabins ... and hiking trails ... and golf 
>courses ... It's the need for dhyana that is behind all these.
> > Vacations too. ... how perfectly named that is ... a VACATION, an emptying 
>out ... that's what dhyana is, an emptying out  of all the static clutter and 
>junk of one's life and just settling into an undefined sort of tranquility.
> > That's what Lila's involved in now, a huge vacation, an emptying out of the 
>junk of her life." (Lila, page 375-6)  [dmb adds: In the story line, Lila is 
>below deck in a catatonic state, clinging to her "baby".]
> > 
> > "Americans don't have to go to the Orient to learn what this mysticism stuff 
>is about. It's been right her in America all along. In the Orient they dress it 
>up with rituals and incense and pagodas and chants and, of course, huge 
>organizational enterprises that bring in the equivalent of millions of dollars 
>every year. American Indians haven't done this. Their way is not to be organized 
>at all. They don't charge anything, they don't make a big fuss, and that's what 
>makes people underrate them.  Phaedrus remembered saying to Dusenberry just 
>after that peyote meeting was over, 'The Hindu understanding is just a low-grade 
>imitation of THIS! This is how it must have really been before all the clap-trap 
>got started'." (Lila, page 408)                          
>
> 
> 
> 
>  
> ___
>  
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