[MD] Wisdom

Mon Oct 18 01:00:29 PDT 2010

Hi, Dan, I will drop a copy in your mailbox.Hope you like it, superb
material in it.
sorry for the condensed mail (this previous post , but my time was very
short)
greetzz, Adrie

2010/10/18 Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com>

> Hello everyone
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <parser666 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi, Dan, in reflection of our last conversation i took the effort
> >
> > to re-read some of huxley's Perennial, to tune in on some things we
> >
> > spoke of, and thing you coined in the following posts
> > Made a little comment for you, if you like the perennial to have, i
> >
> > have the pdf,if you like it for further investigation, it is a
> >
> > difficult work, very diffracted summarised, but filled with
> >
> > quality.
>
> Hi Adrie
>
> Yes, I would like a copy, please.
>
> >
> >
> > Aldous Huxley quoting Chuang Tzu in the perennial philosophy
> >
> > "Do not ask wether the principle is in this or that; it is in all
> >
> > beings.It is on this account that we apply to it the epithets of
> >
> > supreme, universal , total...It has ordained that all things should
> > be limited, but is itself unlimited, infinite.
> > As to what pertains to manifestation, the principle causes the
> >
> > succession of its phases, but is not this succession.
> > It is the author of causes and effects. It is the author of
> >
> > condensations and dissipations.
> > (Birth and death, changes of states), but is not itself
> > condensations and dissipations. All proceeds from it and is under
> >
> > its influence.
> > It is in all things, but is not identical with beings,
> > for it is neither differentiated nor limited"-end Chuang Tzu.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > * does this ring a bell , Dan? it should.(adrie)
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dan:
>
> Yes it does ring a bell, you're right.
>
> >
> > But it gets better if you take this in consideration,
> > Mr Pirsig in the copl' annotations.
> >
> > quote Pirsig(out of context)
> > "So It has really been a shock to see how close Bradley is to the
> >
> > MOQ. Both he and the MOQ are expressing what Aldous Huxley called
> >
> > "The Perennial Philosophy," which is perennial, I believe, because
> >
> > it happens to be true. Bradley has given an excellent description
> >
> > of what the MOQ calls Dynamic Quality and an excellent rational
> >
> > justification for its intellectual acceptance.  It and the MOQ can
> >
> > be spliced together with no difficulty into a broader explanation
> >
> > of the same thing.
> >
> > *(It and the moq can be spliced together etc, incredibly
> >
> > important.)Adrie
> >
> > Chuang Tzu , in his this or that approach, is deviating from the
> >
> > negative negation, not this , not that-neti-neti, negative
> >
> > theology.
> >
> > Tzu is pointing out towards "this, that", "all off it at the same
> >
> > time"
> > dynamic quality, neither differentiated nor limited,
> > he is saying undefinable and infinite definable at the same time
> >
> > Pirsig did the same, deviating away from the negative negation.
> > Its all pointing out towards the given fact, that there is no need
> >
> > for a bridge between the East and West, because there is no gap
> > between them, not in the moq, in this context.
>
> Dan:
> Right... in the context of the MOQ there is no gap.
>
> Thank you, Adrie, for your thoughtful response,
>
> Dan
>
>
> > greetz, Adrie
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/10/17 Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com>
> >
> >> "What is the wisdom contained in the Upanishads? To answer, I must say
> >> something about the word Upanishad. The Sanskrit roots mean "sit down
> >> near" - Upanishadic wisdom is the sort that you might get by sitting
> >> down near your guru or spiritual master and engaging in a dialogue. It
> >> is quite distinct from the sort of wisdom that you might get by a
> >> detached pursuit of truth for truth's sake, and it is miles apart from
> >> the knowledge that you gain when your objective is a course grade or
> >> some other credential.
> >>
> >> "Moreover, the Upanishadic wisdom obtained through intense interaction
> >> with a guru is not quite the same as that attained simply by a careful
> >> reading of the Upanishads. An intellectual attempt that is not also a
> >> spiritual search can get no further than a surface hold on Upanishadic
> >> truth. Upanishadic wisdom is, in the last analysis, something that
> >> needs to be recognized nonconceptually. Hence, I cannot pretend to be
> >> transmitting Upanishadic wisdom to you. What I aim to do is simply
> >> explain the concepts that might provide the intellectual bearings for
> >> a spiritual search that eventually does away with the need for
> >> intellectual bearings." [Guidebook to ZMM]
> >>
> >> Dan comments:
> >>
> >> When a person's intellectual cup of tea is full to the brim, there is
> >> no room to form a Dynamic understanding that does away with the need
> >> for intellectual tea. All they have a taste for is intellectualism.
> >> They want to talk instead of listen... they want to shout out how much
> >> they know and how smart they are for knowing it... they tend to
> >> denigrate those who make any attempt to shock them out of the
> >> intellectual malaise in which they have unwittingly become ensnared.
> >>
> >> "To get an idea of Upanishadic truth, you need to have some
> >> understanding of two key concepts, "Brahman" and "Atman." The word
> >> Brahman comes from the Sanskrit root that means "to grow." The
> >> Upanishadic thinkers used this word to refer to the source of all
> >> beings, that from which everything in the universe grows. Brahman is
> >> thus a creator of sorts, but not like our Western God, who creates out
> >> of nothing a world that is distinct from God. Brahman grows into or
> >> becomes the many things of the world. At the same time, Brahman is not
> >> exhausted by the world of things but remains its own reality, which is
> >> true reality. One must not reduce Brahman to the many things that
> >> Brahman somehow becomes; rather, the many are to be reduced to
> >> Brahman.
> >>
> >> "The Upanishads are filled with stories in which spiritual masters
> >> enjoin spiritual seekers to peel away the layers of the universe in
> >> order to discover the subtle essence of all. This discovery, which is
> >> to be prized beyond all else, is not attainable through ordinary ways
> >> of knowing, for ordinary perceptual/conceptual knowledge is geared
> >> toward marking off qualities from other qualities and objects from
> >> other objects, while Brahman is neither a particular object nor a
> >> particular quality but that which underlies all objects and qualities,
> >> the unqualified ground, the Pure Object. No wonder, then, that it is
> >> spoken of as "that from which words and thought return without having
> >> attained it" (Taittiriya Upanishad, Ch. II, sect. 4, 1.1).
> >> Nonetheless, although concepts cannot get a hold on Brahman, they can
> >> be used !o point the way toward it. The Upanishads are full of
> >> analogies that are meant to provide a notion of Brahman (e.g., the
> >> salt that pervades the water and is in our awareness without itself
> >> being an object of direct perception). And lest seekers confuse the
> >> analogy with the reality, they are continually reminded that Brahman
> >> is neti, neti, "not this, not this." Analogies and negations do not
> >> attain the goal but they at least mark off a path from which seekers
> >> will eventually leap into transcendental consciousness." [ibid.]
> >>
> >> Dan comments:
> >>
> >> Dynamic Quality of the MOQ is not the same as the concept of God. It
> >> is Pure Quality or the Pure Object Brahman. We can point to it
> >> intellectually and via analogy but never gain a grasp on it
> >> conceptually. It is not this, not that.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> Dan
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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