[MD] The Moral Landscape

[118]

Hi David,

Thanks for the rerun, I had missed that.  I find it difficult to blame
religion per se as a cause.  Religion develops as a result, and cannot be
placed at the root.  The previous political society in Russia was meant to
deny religious expression and is now moving in the other direction.  I would
not consider that backtracking on Quality.

There are many factors which impact the quality of life, education being one
of them.  I also do not think that education necessarily does away with
religion as you are suggesting with the National Academy of Sciences.  It is
true that other explanations for what is do provide more ways of thinking of
which religion is one.  Many in revolt of their personal indoctrination will
claim that being religious is somehow inferior.  I do not want to get into
my rant of Science being used in religious ways but that is the way I
interpret many of these posts.  I would also denounce the use of religion by
the Christian Right to support its necessity.

I haven't taken time to explore Zuckerman's reasoning, so take my comment in
that light.  The principles of cause and effect can sometimes be distorted
when that which is being studied is highly complex.  From what you post
below, my impression is that Zuckerman has an axe to grind, wants to be
provocative for purposes of fame, and is twisting the facts to support his
contention.

That the US is prevented from being a theocracy is written in the first
amendment in the establishment clause.  This is a topical subject since it
was brought up in a recent debate in a current political race involving
O'Donnell.  From my following of recent talking heads, there is nothing in
the constitution which demands the separation of church and state (in fact
the houses start each day with a prayer).  This interpretation of the
constitution did not come about until 1949 in a supreme court case.   Even
with this interpretation, we still see the government interfering with the
building of mosques and such where it should not have an opinion due to
separation.  Yes, this is a side topic, but it may bring about discussion
relevant to the one Platt started in this post.

Thanks again,
Mark

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:54 AM, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>wrote:

>
> The following is a re-run from last August but I think it bears repeating:
>
> There is a sociologist named Phil Zuckerman who looked at the levels of
> religiosity in the various nations and their possible correlations to the
> basic quality of life in those nations. He also looked at the levels of
> religiosity within the United States, from state to state, and compared that
> to the levels of social dysfunction. This would include everything from
> drunk driving to divorce, domestic abuse, poverty, ignorance and crime in
> general. As it turns out, nation by nation or state by state, the more
> religious the population the more social disease there is. Other surveys
> show a correlation between religiosity and low educational and intelligence
> levels. Most Americans (85%) say they believe in God. By contrast, less than
> 1% of the members of the national academy of science say they believe in any
> kind of personal God. Most Americans also believe that you can't be a moral
> person without religion, but the demographic facts say the opposite is true
> no matter where you look.
> Sam Harris said, "Contrary to the views of many conservative pundits and
> the Christian Right, the least religious countries in the world today are
> not full of chaos and immorality, but are actually among the safest,
> healthiest, most well-educated, prosperous, ethical, and successful
> societies on earth. Based on a year´s worth of research conducted while
> living in Scandinavia, Society Without God by Phil Zuckerman explores life
> in a largely secular culture, delving into the unique worldviews of secular
> men and women who live in a largely irreligious society, and explaining the
> reasons why some nations are less religious than others, and why relgious
> faith doesn't seem to be the secret to national success that so many claim
> it to be."
> Zuckerman's book, "Society Without God" shows that societies are better off
> in all kinds of ways when they are secular rather than religious. As is the
> case in the United States, the nation in question need not officially be a
> theocracy for it to count as a religious nation or as a nation with a
> religious culture. Outside of Africa, Afghanistan is the poorest nation on
> earth and, probably NOT coincidentally, the home of the Taliban.
>
> Thanks.
>
> dmb
>
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