[MD] The Moral Landscape

[Ian]

Dmb with an intelligent interlocutor such as yourself I could debate  
that, but honestly even Pirsig in the quotes you provide, indicates  
that the "left" lost any intellectual moral high ground it should have  
had.

If we established some working understanding of left I could easily  
agree with you, but in the cartoon world of mass media, they're as low  
quality as each other. And whilst MOQ wallows in the same mire as  
populist politics count me out. Personal choice, not a criticism of  
yourself and Arlo say, if you wanna fight that battle, but there are  
bigger fish to fry for me.

The quality of argument itself. Each to his own.
Ian

Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Oct 2010, at 19:31, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Ian said:
>
> Nothing wrong with politics Platt, just partisan politics that is a  
> product of SOMism. Left right left right left right subject object  
> subject object .... Zzzzzz
>
>
>
> dmb says:
>
> I don't see how it makes any sense to dismiss partisan politics as a  
> product of SOM. As Pirsig paints it, the conflict between right and  
> left is a conflict between social and intellectual values. It's a  
> moral battle and an evolutionary struggle. Two or three chapters of  
> Lila are dedicated to an explanation of this conflict, with many  
> specific examples from history and politics. And yet you're bored by  
> the left-right conflict in our politics?
> "...a culture that supports the dominance of intellectual values  
> over social
> values is absolutely superior to one that does not." (Lila, p.311)
>
> "That's what neither the socialist nor the capitalist ever got  
> figured out.
> From a static point of view, socialism is more moral than  
> capitalism. It's a
> higher form of evolution. It is an intellectually guided society,  
> not just a
> society that is guided by mindless traditions. That's what gives  
> socialism its
> drive. But what the socialist left out and what has all but killed  
> their whole
> undertaking is an absence of a concept of indefinite DQ. You go to any
> socialist city and it's always a dull place because there's little  
> DQ. On the
> other hand the conservatives who keep trumpeting about the virtues  
> of free
> enterprise are normally just supporting their own self-interest.  
> They are just
> doing the usual cover-up for the rich in their age-old exploitation  
> of the
> poor. Some of them seem to sense there is also something  
> mysteriously virtuous
> in a free enterprise system and you can see them struggling to put  
> it into
> words but they don't have the metaphysical vocabulary for it any more
> than the socialists do." (expanded a bit by dmb)
>
> "It is not that Victorian social economic patterns are more moral than
> socialist intellectual economic patterns. Quite the opposite. They  
> are less
> moral as static patterns go."
>
>
> Now think about social level values as Pirsig describes them and  
> then read Altemeyers description of right-wing authoritarians. It's  
> quite obvious to me that Pirsig's portrait of the neo-Victorians is  
> well supported by Altemeyers' findings. I've seen other studies that  
> say the same thing. And it's also pretty obvious that the tea  
> baggers fit into the general pattern of other social level  
> reactionaries. The following three paragraphs are quotes...
>
> "According to research by Altemeyer, right-wing authoritarians tend  
> to exhibit cognitive errors and symptoms of faulty reasoning.  
> Specifically, they are more likely to make incorrect inferences from  
> evidence and to hold contradictory ideas that result from  
> compartmentalized thinking. They are also more likely to  
> uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their  
> beliefs, and they are less likely to acknowledge their own  
> limitations. Nevertheless, there is no connection between  
> authoritarianism and either low or high intelligence. In terms of  
> the five factor model of personality, authoritarians generally score  
> lower on openness to experience and slightly higher on  
> conscientiousness.
>
> Altemeyer suggested that authoritarian politicians are more likely  
> to be in the Conservative or Reform party in Canada, or the  
> Republican Party in the United States. They generally have a  
> conservative economic philosophy, are highly nationalistic, oppose  
> abortion, support capital punishment, oppose gun control  
> legislation, and do not value social equality. The RWA scale  
> reliably correlates with political party affiliation, reactions to  
> Watergate, pro-capitalist attitudes, religious orthodoxy, and  
> acceptance of covert governmental activities such as illegal  
> wiretaps. Although authoritarianism is correlated with conservative  
> political ideology, not all authoritarians are conservative, and not  
> all conservatives are authoritarian. It is also worth noting that  
> many authoritarians have no interest in politics.
>
> Authoritarians are generally more favorable to punishment and  
> control than personal freedom and diversity. For example, they are  
> more willing to suspend constitutional guarantees of liberty such as  
> the Bill of Rights. They are more likely to advocate strict,  
> punitive sentences for criminals, and they report that they obtain  
> personal satisfaction from punishing such people. They tend to be  
> ethnocentric and prejudiced against racial and ethnic minorities,  
> and homosexuals."
>
>
> dmb
>
>
>
>
>
>
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