[MD] The Dynamics of Value

Alexander Jarnroth alexander.jarnroth at comhem.se
Wed Oct 27 02:08:08 PDT 2010 

If the idea of a duality between MoQ and ordinary science is useful, then
you should be able to map from ordinary science the concept of entropy to
MoQ, somehow, I believe.
The negation of entropy is information. And that is the same as the degree
of freedom of energy, and the ways a structure could be decomposed. You also
have that something with low entropy should be useful with a low amount of
measurement, while something with a higher amount requires a higher amount
of measurement.
But I guess, what first need to be defined is a scale.

/A

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of 118
Sent: den 27 oktober 2010 01:43
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] The Dynamics of Value

Hi /A,

To start with, dynamic and static quality.

Mark

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Alexander Jarnroth <
alexander.jarnroth at comhem.se> wrote:

> Interesting approach. But just what kinds of words were you considering?
>
> /A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of 118
> Sent: den 26 oktober 2010 18:56
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] The Dynamics of Value
>
> Hi A,
>
> Yes, I think you make a good point.  The mathematics of language is 
> something that I am interested in.  The Qabalah deals with this, so I 
> have been studying its principles in a superficial way.  In this way I 
> can get a better understanding of such a thing.  Recently in a series 
> of exchanges between Ham and me, the formulation of Quality was 
> brought up.  The idea was to assign constants, variables, and 
> operators to terms in MOQ.  The approach would be similar to the one 
> physics uses to describe the universe.  They are all analogies, and 
> there may be ways to make the two approaches, verbal and mathematical, 
> interchangeable.  It does get tricky because of the different 
> formulations used by each person in the definition of words.  This is 
> kind of where we got stuck.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Alexander Jarnroth < 
> alexander.jarnroth at comhem.se> wrote:
>
> > I would rather say that "a logic" is a specified way of assigning 
> > relationships among what is termed "entities". In formal logic, 
> > which is a Boolean algebra, as mentioned in another context, you 
> > have the two operators, or relationships, "and" and "or" - entities 
> > which values can either be one (unity) or zero (that is true or 
> > false) - and the complement
> > (negation) to a given statement. Implications, that is "if p then 
> > q"-statements, could be viewed as "not-p or q".
> > I think these other logics are intelligible enough to be termed "logics"
> > even though you can't formalize them in the same way.
> >
> > I came, however, to think about another thing concerning labels and 
> > values, in the case, though, in relation to set theory, which is 
> > equivalent to formal logic. But to put it simple, arithmetic 
> > concerns values, but algebra concerns labels. So you could say that 
> > you assign labels, then abstract them, perform operations on them, 
> > and then you could reassign values to the labels any way you want. 
> > Thus, a mathematic concept derived from some setting, could most 
> > often find applications in other quite different contexts.
> > Talking about other values, these abstract concepts must be 
> > intellectual values, but also, somehow, correspondence to other
> > values: Boolean algebra being a good example.
> > With words, however, it's quite different, because if you try to do 
> > the same with words you would get the logic of poetics, which have a 
> > social meaning, but most often lack correspondences to the outside 
> > of the social sphere (but perhaps not, if combined with the logic of 
> > practice, which would be a kind of expressive mapping from the 
> > psychosocial sphere to the external world).
> > I think there actually can be some things into this. Pirsig himself 
> > tries to use the logic of poetics in some of his work (this 
> > reconstructed Indo-European being rather poetic, than etymological - 
> > probably there has never actually been anything like 
> > "proto-Indo-European" - it's just a constructed set of references, 
> > which could be useful in comparative linguistics).
> >
> > /A
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of 118
> > Sent: den 26 oktober 2010 01:18
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Subject: Re: [MD] The Dynamics of Value
> >
> > Hi A,
> >
> > Thanks for the response and wonderful ideas.
> >
> > Yes, I do not want to get into how logic can be defined, so I use it 
> > only in terms of its cause and effect, or if/then, as directed by 
> > words based on assumptions.  I suppose one could describe a type of 
> > logic coming from poetry, but I prefer just to use such a term in 
> > its quasi-scientific sense.
> >  Ritual could be interpreted as logical but, this just confuses 
> > things for me.  Of course, that is limiting the definition, but just 
> > makes it
> simpler.
> >  Other kinds of logic can certainly contain a modifier such as you 
> > present with the term poetic logic.
> >
> > We have discussed memes in this forum, but I don't think anyone has 
> > brought up Falon Gong, but I have to say, I have not read the 
> > complete history of MOQ.  For me labeling can be seen as posts in 
> > the ground which are then interconnected with strings to form a web.  
> > And what a
> beautiful web it is!
> >  The important thing for me to keep in mind, is that in the end, 
> > this web is not connected to anything, but floating and growing on its
own.
> > And, of course, what is the spider?
> >
> > The web itself is based on so called intuition.  The view I take is 
> > that all subject object metaphysics is indeed fruitful in terms of 
> > creating meaning and thus imparting reconciliation with what we are 
> > presented with.
> >  However,
> > it should be viewed in that context and not pretend to be something
more.
> >  We are dealing with analogies and analogies of analogies.  Yes, 
> > technology should not be abandoned, we are still in primitive times 
> > and have only just begun.  We do, however, need to take a break now 
> > and again, and let wisdom catch up.
> >
> > You will also notice that sometimes Quality is brought in to justify 
> > certain views or systems rather than to describe them.  I believe 
> > this should also be viewed with skepticism.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mark
> >
> >
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