[MD] constant

[Magnus Berg]

Hi John

On 2010-09-05 07:30, John Carl wrote:
> Magnus,
>
> My wondering is much like yours, in that the current models of understanding
> were somehow missing the picture - stuck in a wrong mindset.  Maybe the
> ancients weren't so far off just dubbing it all aetherially!  And yeah,  I
> made that word up, but you get the point.

Not sure, so probably not. :-(

> Our one conclusion is that the relationship of space and gravity needs
> revision.  Gravity and Space functions of one thing,  rather than an
> intersection of two independent entities reacting to the other.   Your
> speculation about space "pushing"  and matter interfering, rather than
> matter sucking, and space passively observing,  seems a very likely and
> interesting hypothesis.
>
> How do you test it?

I have no idea. Or rather, I have a bunch, but none ready enough for 
execution.

For example, if you want to show that it pushes instead of pulls you can 
start by showing that it comes from the other side than thought. In the 
case of the Earth you should show that it comes from all directions 
*but* the sun. But as Adrie said, we can only see the effects of 
gravity, and the effects *does* come from the sun because that's the 
objects that is interfering with the gravity "zero level".

Another line of thought is what Horse mentioned the other day. If 
gravity comes from space, and space is expanding, then it should get 
weaker with time. If we can find evidence that gravity was higher when 
the sun and our planets formed, then that could be a smoking gun. But I 
doubt anyone has searched for such evidence. Perhaps we could find it on 
earth, or by looking outward for some tell-tale sign in the sky. But 
with things like these, what you see is very influenced by the system of 
thought you assume to begin with. If your assumption is that gravity 
pulls and space are warped by it, then that is probably the answer 
you'll get.

>> Yes, so there must be something within that empty space that is able to
>> push space and galaxies apart, right?
>>
>> The question is, is it more logical to invent some new patch like dark
>> energy that nobody knows what it is? Or, explain it using a push-gravity
>> model that more or less does what dark energy is supposed to do, plus does
>> what what the current model of gravity does?
>
> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by what dark energy is supposed to
> do.  How exactly do they relate?  If you don't mind my asking.

In the current model, gravity pulls together planet systems, galaxies 
and also the entire universe. And that works in the smaller scale like 
planet systems, but to be able to explain the rotation of the outer 
regions of galaxies, scientists need to invent dark matter to add matter 
(i.e. pulling gravity), otherwise the model says that the outer regions 
should spin much slower (like pluto does compared to inner planets), or 
get expelled from the galaxy.

If we expand the scale to inter-galactic space, we suddenly see that 
galaxies are speeding away from eachother, *and* that the speed is 
increasing. So, for this scale, the scientists need to *remove* matter 
(i.e. pulling gravity), but since there's no matter to remove, they 
invent a new force they call dark energy which is pushing galaxies apart.

But what I think is that the dark energy is really gravity itself, and 
that the dark matter needed to keep the outer layers of galaxies 
together or really the effect of that inter-galactic gravity pushing 
harder on those outer layers of the galaxy. Inside the galaxy, that 
inter-galactic gravity has been dispersed and is where we can use the 
pulling gravity model without problems.

We should also remember that when Einstein made that theory about 
gravity, he thought the universe was static. Not sure he even knew there 
were other galaxies?

And actually, the shape of galaxies presents another way to possibly 
show that gravity has been decreasing since the big one. Many galaxies 
are spiral shaped, but nobody seems to know how that shape came to be. I 
think the every decreasing gravitational pressure from inter-galactic 
space is causing it. As the pressure decreases, the galaxy expands bit 
by bit and the outermost layer slows down like a spinning figure skater 
expanding her arms.

Perhaps Horse's friend could comment on that?

	Magnus