[MD] Intellectual Level

[MarshaV]

Marsha:
What folks?  What do I care of some mythological,
metaphorical 'folks'?  


On Sep 8, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Frank Booth wrote:

> <F>
> All these folks are looking for the primal pattern.
> 
> It's all metaphor and mythology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 3:56:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual Level
> 
> 
> 
> HI John,
> 
> 
> On Sep 7, 2010, at 11:36 PM, John Carl wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:32 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Greetings John,
>>> 
>>> I wasn't speaking of those on this list who are analyzing the physicists
>>> metaphysical notion of 'real'.  Most, of these physicists/scientists are
>>> scientific
>>> materialist and they believe that the photon is an independent existing
>>> entity.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Ok first off, where's your evidence on the "scientific materialists" and
>> what does that mean anymore?
> 
> You are correct, some scientists seem to think that photons exist as 
> independent entities, that they have mass.  Others may think that photons 
> are ideas only.  Still others may think that photons are static patterns of 
> value.  My statement was based on books I have read and lectures I have 
> listened to, but the statement was really only inferred relative to my 
> experience of what physicists say.  
> 
> 
>> I'm sure they're aware of the fact there really is no such a thing as "an
>> independent existing entity".  Any scientist working with photons surely
>> knows that!  Even I know that, and those guys are way smarter and more
>> educated than me!
> 
> It is quite possible that many scientists, maybe even most scientists, think 
> all the particles in the Standard Model are ideas with no mass and no 
> independent existence.  I don't really know with any certainty.  
> 
> How do you know "those guys" are smarter and more educated than you?  
> Smarter how?  Educated how?  Maybe what they don't know is more 
> valuable than what they do know?  That is if they knew what they didn't know, 
> of course.   There may be all sorts of fringe patterns that are mostly ignored 
> by smart, educated scientists that contain great value?  That's possible, isn't 
> it?  
> 
> 
> 
>> Most human beings have a world view that the world is made of themselves,
>>> an independent entity and independent entities and objects in an external
>>> world.
>>> 
>> 
>> yes, but most human beings don't think much about "photons' either.  And
>> those who do understand that "independent existence of material objects"
>> rules don't apply at the quantum levels.
> 
> Right again, John...   I have no proof of what most human beings think.  Maybe 
> when they sit down for their evening meal, they think they are sitting on 
> a process.  Or maybe they don't think.  Maybe humans, evening, meals and 
> sitting are patterns of value extracted from a dynamic flow of quality.  
> 
> Different patterns of value are interesting, are they?  
> 
> Yet, I still find my idea that most physicists think that photons are 'real' in 
> the sense that they have an independent existence in an external world 
> to be true.  
> 
> 
> 
>>> I do not dispute that those on this list are grappling with other
>>> metaphysical notions.
>>> 
>>> 
>> physical ones too.  yoikes.
>> 
>> john
> 
> 
> Going to go for experience for a while.  Going to go paint .  Listen to Enigma 
> and paint...
> 
> 
> Marsha, a radical empiricist, 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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