[MD] Noncognitive babble

[MarshaV]

Hi Steve,

Interesting, and reminded me of asking how many angels can 
dance on the head of a pin.  But fun!  And I image it has created  a 
quattuordecillion opportunities for papers to be published. And one 
can only wonder about those 'ideal conditions'?  Interesting... 

I have often wondered about the difference between a static 
pattern of value representing a conventional truth (Tim is a 
human.)  and a static pattern of value representing a 
conventional judgement (Tim is an hypocrite), or something 
like that. 


Marsha
 
 
 



On Sep 10, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Steven Peterson wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> 20 years after Lila, I wonder how it would be read by someone new to
> Pirsig. Would the ideas seem relevent? As we get more and more
> distance from the positivists, I wonder how young people today would
> read Pirsig's attacks on the fact-value dichotomy. Would they wonder
> just who it is Pirsig thinks he is arguing against?
> Maybe this aspect of SOM that attracted most of us to the MOQ is a
> straw man. If Pirsig and the other antiSomers are successful, at least
> at some point it will be a straw man, right?  Someday young people
> just won't even know what Pirsig was going on about. At the time I got
> into Pirsig, I really felt like the notion of objectivity was being
> used to push values into some realm of noncognitive babble. Is that
> still happening today?
> 
> Here are some examples of the views that Pirsig attacks with regard to
> the dichotomy between facts and values taken from an article on Hilary
> Putnam who also made such critiques on SOM:
> 
> http://www.philosophy.su.se/texter/putnam.htm
> 
> (1) No statement is both evaluative and factual.
> 
> (2) There is no logical connection between evaluative and factual statements.
> 
> (3) Factual statements are true or false independently of any value judgments.
> 
> (4) Facts can, and values cannot, be established beyond controversy.
> 
> (5) Evaluative statements are neither true nor false.
> 
> 
> Are these dogmas ones that people still adhere to? Or have Pirsig,
> Putnam, and the other critics of the fact-value dichotomy been
> successful?
> 
> Best,
> Steve
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