[MD] Reifying carrots

[MarshaV]

Greetings Ham, 

On Sep 12, 2010, at 3:23 AM, Ham Priday wrote:

> Dear Marsha --
> 
> 
>> I am getting quite tired of being called names because I think outside
>> someone else's box.  I don't expect to be told that I am not permitted
>> to use the word reification in my definition of the Intellectual Level,
>> and I don't expect be told I am an idiot when I determine that truth
>> within the MoQ is relative.  And I am sick of being told I am
>> anti-intellectual because I think that RMP's "Kill all intellectual patterns.
>> Kill them completely"  Is the key to actual awakening to the MoQ's
>> highest point-of-view.  Not this, not that. Yes it is my favorite.
>> It is my bottom line, and it is past speculation.  It is habit.
> 
> Reification is an archaic word for treating an abstraction as a concrete thing.  The term is generally used with contemptful or deprecatory intent. For example, Karl Marx is said to have stated that representing human beings as "commoditiies", such as "the labor force", reifies man by depriving him of his individuality or character.

I like the word.  I think it works perfectly to explain the functioning of mind.  This is the MoQ, I would think a fresh understand is possible.  


> 
> The philosophical equivalent is "hypostasis", which means construing a conceptual idea as a real existent.  Since I am a phenomenalist, I prefer the simpler verb "objectivize" when referring to experienced phenomena (i.e., "patterns" in Pirsig's vernacular).

Yes, I did see a reference to hypostasis, but most Buddhist text use 'reification'.  I do think the MoQ is a bridge between the science of the West and the insight/wisdom of the East, so I will continue to use it.  


> The problem I have with your concept of intellect is the same one I have with that unfortunate Pirsig quote.  If we were to take it seriously--that is, "kill" or eliminate all intellectual thought--what do you suppose would happen to reasoning from our knowledge of how the world works?  Virtually every field related to human advancement would cease, including medical research, technology, mathematics, economics, sociology, and the analysis of human history.  Learning would literally be impossible, for most of our understanding comes from the deductions and inferences that intellection affords us.  Moreover, the intellectual function in no way impedes or hampers philosophical thought; in fact, intellection is critical for the development of philosophy.

I have explained before that I understand this statement to  "Kill all intellectual patterns." as mediation/mindfulness which is a technique to awakening and eventually enlightenment.  That I am accused of anti-intellectualism for citing it is ridiculous.  RMP recommends Steven Hagen's book 'Buddhism Plain and Simple', which has much to say on this topic.   


> Whether or not the "material" world is substantively real is itself an intellectual question.  So if it weren't for your intellect, you would not be raising the issue.  But even if objective patterns are "neither this nor that", are you going to withdraw from existence and live out your life in a fantasy world that only you imagine?  That doesn't seem a very practical alternative, no matter what your Buddhist gurus tell you.

No I am not going to withdraw into a world without patterns, unless I am meditating.  The idea is to keep close the understanding of the nature of all patterns, but when necessary to choose the best pattern/process for the task at hand.  


> Our differentiated experience on this planet can teach us much about spirituality, relationships, and morality, despite our intellectual limitations.  Above all, living in a relational world affords us intimate awareness of Value.  I don't know about you, but it is inconceivable to me that the splendors of this universe do not point to an order of Reality beyond human comprehension.  If I am right, this means that your life, as well as mine, has a purpose or destiny that transcends finite existence.  If I'm wrong, we have nothing to lose by participating fully in this life with high expectations of where it may lead.

I will not speculate on a 'purpose', but agree there is beauty and love to be found in each moment.  


> 
> Essentially yours,
> Ham


Marsha 


 
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