[MD] measuring

Sun Sep 12 11:59:43 PDT 2010

Greetings,

For me, the MoQ as Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience.)  
Intellectual Static Patterns of Value are reified concepts and the rules for their 
rational analysis and manipulation.  Intellectual patterns process from a 
subject/object conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give 
the illusion of independence as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.”  The 
fourth level is a formalized subject/object level (SOM), where the 
paramount demand is for rational, objective knowledge, which is free 
from the taint of any subjectivity.

I do not need to defend my position against anybody's absolute definition.  
As far I've experienced it, my explanation leaves plenty of room for expansion 
into a new level of quality awareness.  Other posters are free to think differently.   

Marsha

On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:50 PM, MarshaV wrote:

> 
> True for me...   
> 
> 
> ``Any philosophic explanation of Quality is going to be both false and true 
> precisely because it is a philosophic explanation. The process of philosophic 
> explanation is an analytic process, a process of breaking something down 
> into subjects and predicates. What I mean (and everybody else means) by 
> the word quality cannot be broken down into subjects and predicates. This 
> is not because Quality is so mysterious but because Quality is so simple, 
> immediate and direct.
> 
>    (ZMM, Chapter 20)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:48 PM, MarshaV wrote:
> 
>> 
>> A difference in the evaluation of quality.   
>> 
>> 
>> "The reason there is a difference between individual evaluations of quality
>> is that although Dynamic Quality is a constant, these static patterns are
>> different for everyone because each person has a different static pattern of
>> life history. Both the Dynamic Quality and the static patterns influence his
>> final judgment. That is why there is some uniformity among individual value
>> judgments but not complete uniformity."   
>> 
>>  (RMP, SODV)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:45 PM, MarshaV wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Within the MoQ, truth is relative:
>>> 
>>> Anthony writes:
>>> “Intellectual values include truth, justice, freedom, democracy and,
>>> trial by jury. It’s worth noting that the MOQ follows a pragmatic
>>> notion of truth so truth is seen as relative in his system while
>>> Quality is seen as absolute.  In consequence, the truth is defined
>>> as the highest quality intellectual explanation at a given time.
>>> 
>>> RMP:
>>> If the past is any guide to the future this explanation must be taken
>>> provisionally; as useful until something better comes along. One can
>>> then examine intellectual realities the same way he examines paintings
>>> in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one is the ‘real’
>>> painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value. There are
>>> many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some
>>> to have more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the result
>>> of our history and current patterns of values. (Pirsig, 1991, p.103)”
>>> 
>>>   (McWatt,Anthony,MOQ Textbook)  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:37 PM, MarshaV wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> There is not one man who does all the measuring.    
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> "Who is right? Is there more than one meaning of the word 'around'? That's a surprise! That's like discovering more than one true system of geometry. How many meanings are there and which one is right?
>>>> 
>>>> It seems as though the squirrel is using the term 'around' in a way that is relative to itself but the man is using it in a way that is relative to an absolute point in space outside of the squirrel and himself. But if we dop the squirrel's relative point of view and we take the absolute fixed point of view, what are we letting ourselves in for? From a fixed point in space every human being on this planet goes around every other human being to the east or west of him once a day. The whole East River does a half-cartwheel over the Hudson each morning and another one under it each evening. Is this what we want to mean by 'around'? If so, how useful is it? And if the squirrel's relative point of view is false, how useless is it?
>>>> 
>>>> What emerges is that the word 'around,' which seems like one of the most clear and absolute and fixed terms in the universe suddenly turns out to be relative and subjective. What is 'around' depends on who you are and what you're thinking about at the time you use it. The more you tug at it the more things start to unravel. One such philosophic tugger was Albert Einstein, who concluded that all time and space are relative to the observer.
>>>> 
>>>> We are always in the position of that squirrel. Man is always the measure of all things, even in matters of space and dimension. Persons like James and Einstein, immersed in the spirit of philosophy, do not see things like squirrels circling trees as necessarily trivial, because solving puzzles like that are what they're in philosophy and science for. Real science and real philosophy are not guided by preconceptions of what subjects are important to consider."
>>>> 
>>>> (LILA,Chapter 26)   
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>>>> 
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