[MD] Intellectual Level

[Platt Holden]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Carl" <ridgecoyote at gmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual Level


> Platt,
>
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:42 PM, <plattholden at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Social friction, opposition, tension? What do you have in mind? The Zuni
>> priests perhaps? I don't see how quantum theory, an example of 
>> intellectual
>> evolution, was affected by social friction.
>
>
>
> What would you call the existing intellectual paradigm before quantum
> theory?  Let's just call it the OWV for the moment, "Old World View".  Any
> time an intellectual theory evolves, it must overcome the social inertia 
> of
> the OWV.  This overcoming of static latching is primarily social because 
> the
> society runs on the intellectual OWV's of the past.

[Platt]
The scientific method calls for others in the scientific community being 
able to
perfom the same experiements and get the same results before its brand of
truth is accepted. But as we philosophers know only to well, not all truth
is scientific truth, not all intellectual endeavor is scientific, and world 
views are
as varied as there are philosophers (which is just about everybody).

> But someone, an individual perhaps, has a problem with the OWV.  It 
> doesn't
> match his experience, and thus he or she strives, with social friction
> opposing him/her, to get his/her ideas accepted.  That means "socially
> accepted".  Social Value is inherently the goal of all intellectual 
> endeavor
> of individuals.

[Platt]
I don't know about "all" intellectual endeavor of individuals having a goal 
of
social acceptance. But, I agree a lot of it does. It's nice to be liked. In 
fact,
many would rather be liked than right.
.
>> If anything, intellectual evolution
>> ignores static social patterns. Pirsig got his idea for the MOQ in 
>> response
>> to
>> DQ with no "social friction" involved that I know of. So, I don't grasp
>> your
>> meaning.
>>
>>
>
> Umm... I'd say getting locked up and loads of electricity delivered to you
> between the ears is a bit of social friction.  Wouldn't you agree?

[Platt]
His idea didn't come from social patterns. His punishment was. That's why I
find society at large to be the enemy of intellect. As Pirsig wrote, 
individual rights
such as freedom of speech represent a victory in the battle of intellectual 
vs society.
If that's what you mean by social friction, I agree. All levels are at 
constant war
with each other.


> We should all take care and avoid THAT much social friction!

[Platt]
For sure. And while we're at how about getting the social pattern that 
creates
friction to individual freedom off our backs. Yes, I mean the government.

> John (no stranger to social friction)

[Platt]
You are not alone.