[MD] Intellectual Level

[david buchanan]

John said:

... When you think about it, religion flows naturally from 4th level patterns.  That is, the mutually agreed upon intellectual patterns are what produce the social patterns by which any society derives its rules, punishments and controls.  Society is the static fall-out of intellect. There!  I like that one best.   "Religion is the static fallout of intellect".  Stands on its own.  It's the staticity of the good. Religion is the static fallout of intellect. Got a keeper there, I think.



dmb says:

That's backwards. That's like saying alchemy is the static fallout of chemistry or astrology comes from astronomy. According to everything we know about human history tells us that society and religion existed for a long, long time before science and philosophy came along. C'mon John, you're entitled to your own opinions, but your claim doesn't just defy the MOQ. It defies all the known facts. 

Were you home-schooled by creationists? Do dinosaurs figure into your picture of man's religious history? Just kidding. 

Besides that, religion is only primarily social. It's a domain, not a level. Religion can evolve and so it can be intellectual too. You know, the views of philosophical theologians like Royce would be an example of an intellectualized version religion. And if you are a mystic, religion is a static system that forms in the wake of a dynamic experience and/or a static system designed to precipitate such an experience.

Besides that, society is only primarily social. It's a domain, not a level. Society can evolve and so it can be intellectual too. Pirsig's view is that an intellectually guided society is superior to a society that's guided by tradition. It's safe to say that our culture has both social and intellectual values within it and so does everyone who lives in that culture. Guidance or dominance of intellect doesn't mean the exclusion of social level values. It's just about which values should be given priority in the cases where they clash with each other. In the same way that social level rules do not eliminate sex and procreation but only restrict and channel it, intellectual control only means taming certain social level values. There is a certain continuity of authority despite the vast difference between the divinely sanctioned hereditary king and our elected President. We can see how the same basic function has evolved toward more intellectual values. The President certainly has great authority, but it comes with many legal constraints and limits. Ideally, it is a position of responsibility and the authority he or she has is only a tool for carrying out that responsibility.


Backwards, John. Evolution doesn't go backwards.