[MD] Freedom from choice

Thu Apr 14 05:16:30 PDT 2011

DQ is the fundamental nature of sq.  There's no 
choice involved.  

On Apr 14, 2011, at 7:55 AM, X Acto wrote:

> but thats the choice you make
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Thu, April 14, 2011 4:52:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Freedom from choice
> 
> 
> 
> Not being an Aristotelian, it is not a matter of choosing either DQ or sq.  
> For me sq is not other than DQ.  I accept both.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2011, at 4:35 PM, X Acto wrote:
> 
>> choice
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 8:12:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MD] Freedom from choice
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So what is it you have?  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 7:58 AM, X Acto wrote:
>> 
>>> Marsha,
>>> sounds to me like you have a whole lot of nothing.
>>> -Ron
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>> Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 6:51:56 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Freedom from choice
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ron,  
>>> 
>>> I have: not this, not that.  So what is it you have?    
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marsha
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 6:24 AM, X Acto wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Quite right Marsha it's all we have,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> explain that to Dan
>>>> 
>>>> wait, no you wont because you are too afraid to disagree with him.
>>>> 
>>>> why is that?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>>> Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 6:16:11 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Freedom from choice
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ron,
>>>> 
>>>> And each step along the way to your "continuity" is 
>>>> an act of interpretation, relative to your static history 
>>>> and the dynamics of the immediate experience.  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 5:56 AM, X Acto wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ron:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>> In my own opinion freedom from choice
>>>>>> is like not taking any responsibility for your
>>>>>> actions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan:
>>>>> I'm sorry, Ron, but this simply doesn't make sense. When we follow
>>>>> static quality patterns we are without choice. That is the ultimate
>>>>> accountability factor, in my opinion. We either do it or we don't
>>>>> survive. So what I see you saying is: I have choices so I do not have
>>>>> to take on the responsibility of doing what is better. I can do what I
>>>>> want. I can drink only single malt whiskey. That is my choice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now tell me... how can a person argue with that?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ron:
>>>>> Again you are talking about intellectual patterns
>>>>> and quotes regarding intellectual patterns and applying
>>>>> it as a an arguement against what John and I are saying
>>>>> within the larger context of Quality being value and linking
>>>>> value to choice. I have explained the reasons why I think
>>>>> this is a truer interpretation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You have made the arguement for freedom from choice linked
>>>>> to dynamic Quality and no choice linked to static Quality and
>>>>> you do not understand why I see contradiction in that along
>>>>> with squaring those concepts with the continuity of the remainder
>>>>> of Pirsigs works.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You claim that I am not disagreeing with you but with the MoQ
>>>>>  there is only one. That means there is only one way to correctly
>>>>> interpret it. How else would you make this claim unless you honostly felt 
>> you
>>>>> possesed the interpretation?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Basically I think that the idea of  the MoQ pointing to freedom from choice
>>>>> is the MoQ pointing to sitting on our ass and doing nothing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Which is not what I get when I read Pirsig.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We are argueing two differing interpretations my own and your own.
>>>>> I have rooted my explanation in continuity and you seem to have in 
>>>> interpretive
>>>>> legitimacy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So with this in mind,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan:
>>>>> I'm sorry, Ron, but this simply doesn't make sense. When we follow
>>>>> static quality patterns we are without choice. That is the ultimate
>>>>> accountability factor, in my opinion. We either do it or we don't
>>>>> survive. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ron:
>>>>> I guess what you dont see is that you just offered a choice as your example
>>>>> "do it or don't survive" thats a choice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan:
>>>>> So what I see you saying is: I have choices so I do not have
>>>>> to take on the responsibility of doing what is better. I can do what I
>>>>> want. I can drink only single malt whiskey. That is my choice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ron:
>>>>> No I'm saying since it is all choice, all the way down, we would do well to 
> 
>>>>> choose
>>>>> in regard to the perpetuating the choices it requires to exist. I'm saying that 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> this is
>>>>> the explanation of the basis of a moral reality I'm saying that existence is 
>> 
>> 
>>>>> nothing
>>>>> but those choices and like you said, the ultimate responsibility, now,,,
>>>>> How does freedom from choice figure into this context of moral 
> responsibity?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan:
>>>>> Now tell me... how can a person argue with that?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> 
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html

___