[MD] [Bulk] Re: the story of "me"

Fri Apr 22 00:30:35 PDT 2011

Ron, 

I have no desire to make this into discussion on the meaning - denotation, connotation or interpretation - of words, but when you translated the word I used 'unattached' for the more emotionally charged word 'escape,' the meaning of my statement changed.  I have no desire to defend the idea of 'escaping value.'  

What was your rationale for making such a switch.  

Marsha 

On Apr 21, 2011, at 7:34 PM, X Acto wrote:

> Marsha,
> what exactly are my assumptions?
> 
> That you are a rational human being that has reasons for their beliefs?
> 
> I suppose you are correct Marsha.
> 
> -Ron
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 3:55:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] [Bulk] Re: the story of "me"
> 
> 
> Ron, 
> 
> It's a philosophical question from your heart and head.  I have a different 
> philosophical perspective, a different heart and head.  You're looking for 
> affirmation from and for your point-of-view, your personal interpretation.  
> I suppose since you composed and asked the question, you need to 
> answer it for yourself.  Your question's assumptions make no sense to me. 
> 
> 
> Marsha  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 21, 2011, at 2:22 PM, X Acto wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ron,
>> 
>> I reject your analysis.  But thanks for the projection; it's always 
>> interesting.  
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha  
>> 
>> Marsha,
>> Then you are rejecting a philosophical question not a subjective analysis.
>> 
>> The Question: 
>>>   
>>> if we are composed of value, doesent it make more
>>> sense to develop those value than to try to escape them?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:53 AM, X Acto wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello Ron,
>>> 
>>> Having stated that the "Cartesian 'Me" is an illusion, and the definition of 
>>> self is a flow of ever-changing, interdependent, impermanent inorganic, 
>>> biological, social and intellectual static patterns of value, I would have to 
> 
>>> say NO, I do not stand for any-thing.  If you recognize "me" standing for 
>>> something, I would suspect you are recognizing social  and intellectual 
>>> patterns 
>>> 
>>> we both share: patterns that attract and patterns that repel.  If you want me 
> 
>>> to 
>>> 
>>> admit an "intention," it would be to become "unattached" to these patterns.  
>>> That doesn't mean destroy them, it means to become unattached.  If this all 
>>> sounds too lofty to be "real," I'll confess that the "Cartesian Me" pattern has 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> me in it's grip far, far FAR too often. I am "human, all too human."  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marsha  
>>> 
>>> Marsha,
>>> Why  fight being human, refine it dont deny it. if we are composed of value, 
>>> doesent it make more
>>> sense to develop those value than to try to escape them?
>>> 
>>> -Ron
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2011, at 11:14 PM, X Acto wrote:
>>> 
>>>> well, maybe perhaps one day you'll actually stand for something.
>>>> 
>>>> I think you already do
>>>> 
>>>> but you have yet to admit it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>>> Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 4:58:28 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] [Bulk] Re: the story of "me"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting Ron,  
>>>> 
>>>> I had lunch with a friend early last week, and as we were talking, 
>>>> I was realizing that my words were not really True.  We were discussing 
>>>> experiences in other countries.  And it made me uncomfortable to give 
>>>> any opinion at all.  What I spoke of my experiences in Italy, would be 
>>>> different if I explained them to someone else, or explained them on 
>>>> different day.  They'd have been different if I were talking at a different 
>>>> hour.  These Italian utterances were so transitory.  The talk was harmless 
>>>> enough, so I chalked it up to being social.  But it made me squirm none 
>>>> the less because it represents all semantic expression.  
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe this will help you see why bottom line is always "not this, not that."    
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 17, 2011, at 11:43 PM, X Acto wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ron,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are you suggesting that we add 'stories' as another synonym too, and I forgot 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> Good.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Really, are you suggesting that these are additional synonyms?  Or something 
>> 
>> 
>>>>> else.
>>>>> I'd like to know how you're thinking about this.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha,
>>>>> I'm going after general meanings of the terms we use, I think :
>>>>> Good
>>>>> Choice
>>>>> preference
>>>>> selection
>>>>> Value
>>>>> And yes freedom
>>>>> 
>>>>> All have meaning very similar to the word Quality
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think our stories our biographies tell more about our values
>>>>> than any concept of a cartesian self.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I venture to suppose that our stories are our static values.
>>>>> And I believe we do have a choice in following them or not.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:38 AM, MarshaV wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But it sounds like you are saying you are assigning 'choice' and 'freedom' as 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> additional synonyms for Quality.  So synonyms for Quality are Value, 
>>>>>> Experience,
>>>>>> Morality, Choice, and Freedom.  Are there more?  Is that what you are saying, 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> that 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> choice and freedom are additional synonyms?  Or are those synonyms for static 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> quality alone?  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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