[MD] Free Will

[MarshaV]

Hi Mark,

What do you mean by Intellectual Level?  How do you define it?  
By purpose?  by function?  Or something else?  

I wonder if we can imagine beyond the "intellectual level"?  


Marsha 




On Apr 24, 2011, at 1:47 PM, 118 wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> Certainly everything is open to healthy and meaningful rhetoric
> debate.  One must admit, however, that there are certain philosophies
> that rise to the popular top.  I can only hope that MoQ becomes one of
> these.  In previous posts I have analogized these to rogue waves.
> There is no way to dismiss these phenomena with logic, psychology,
> sociology, or mathematics (all intellectual constructs).
> 
> For example, take the Axial Age as presented by Karl Jaspers.  There
> was a sudden increase in personal philosophy during this age.  A
> transformation of popular questioning of that inside rather than that
> outside.  This was personified by thinkers such as Buddha, Lao Tzu,
> Socrates, and many others.  In our current age, we have gone back to
> that outside, with philosophies such as Scientism.  Such is the
> circular nature of beliefs.
> 
> Some consider this Axial Age to be an intervention of sorts.  This
> could have cycles of 2,500 years or so, if one wants to subscribe to
> this theory.  I am fine with this since it can be the intellectual
> level asserting itself into the personal and then societal levels.
> Others subscribe to other things such as alien or spiritual
> intervention.  I find the former more believable.  Many books have
> been written about such things, of course.
> 
> This OR That can be useful for meaningful discussion.  If we slide
> into the unity of all, which could be considered the pre-intellectual
> level (or maybe an expression of the right brain),  it puts our
> intellect in a bad light (imho).  I think the intellect, although
> wrought with problems and possible misdirection, gives us meaning and
> provides much of the societal level as well.  Buddha believed highly
> of the intellectual level.  Jesus subscribed more to the intuitive
> (pre-intellectual) level.  Each one may be describing the same thing,
> just in different ways.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark
> 
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 10:06 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> I certainly would not want to be understood as supporting logical
>> anarchy, chaos or nihilism, but nor do I believe things are necessarily
>> 'this OR that.'   Even with the hindsight of history, there might be
>> disagreement concerning meaningfulness.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 24, 2011, at 12:25 PM, 118 wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Marsha,
>>> Certainly meaningfulness in the moment can be subjective.  There are
>>> cases, however, where certain meaningfulness is supported through
>>> subsequent history.  We could then state that it is possible that one
>>> thing is more meaningful than another in that context, and in fact
>>> have its roots in the moment.  Otherwise meaningfulness becomes
>>> meaningless.  And we don't want that kind of nihilism in this forum.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:38 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 24, 2011, at 3:14 AM, X Acto wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ron:
>>>>> I'm sorry Dan but you do need to explain yourself if you care about any sort of
>>>>> meaningful philosophic discussion.
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha:
>>>> Most philosophic discussions are based on disagreement.  And "meaningful"
>>>> is in the eyes of the beholder.  Also what is 'acceptable explanation' is another
>>>> relative matter.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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