[MD] Dans Bitterness over Betterness

[X Acto]

 Ron:
What does it mean to say All static quality is an illusion, all dynamic quality 
is chaos.?

Dan rests  on the notion that static quality (all static quality) has no choice 
and no freedom.

" You are arguing for static quality choices. The MOQ states that when our 
behavior is controlled by static quality, we are without choice. "

He doggedly maintains that this supports the general framework of the MoQ
and that this is not his contention at all but he is merely parroting the MoQ
in that all static patterns of value are without choice and without freedom.

He claims the MoQ states DQ is freedom from choice and static Quality  has no 
choice.

I ask where does betterness fit in? if the universe is composed of moral value, 
where does choice
fit in?
 he says it doesent,he says I am confused and I am disagreeing
with the MoQ.


You say:
>
[Mary]

Betterness is a decision made by static quality.  Dynamic Quality has
no inherent betterness or worseness, only the context of static
quality makes it so.

Static quality does not migrate towards betterness with intent.  Only
in hindsight does it look that way.

Dynamic Quality is not inherently better.  Betterness depends on the
static context.  Therefore static quality defines betterness.

Ron:
That was where my thoughts were leading to also Mary, Pirsig states that
DQ's only percieved good is freedom. "The quality of freedom" RMP describes as:

"The 'undefined fittest" they are defending is identical to Dynamic Quality. 
Natural selection is Dynamic Quality at work."


"Phaedrus saw instantly that those seemingly trivial, unimportant, 
'spur of the moment' decisions that Mayr was talking about, the 
decisions that directed the progress of evolution are, in fact,
 Dynamic Quality itself. Dynamic Quality, the source of all things,
 the pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality, always appears as 
'spur of the moment.'"

Ron:
Lets piece this together"

1:"The decisions that directed the progress of evolution are, in fact,
 Dynamic Quality itself. "

I connect term decisions with "choice".

2:"Dynamic Quality is the quality of freedom"

So we have DQ connected with the static ideas of "freedom" and "choice"

RMP adds:

'Survival of the fittest' is meaningful only when 'fittest' is equated 
with 'best,' which is to say, 'Quality.' And the Darwinians don't mean just 
any old quality, they mean undefined Quality!"
"The 'undefined fittest" they are defending is identical to Dynamic Quality."

Ron:
We now add "betterness" with freedom and choice as static ideas connected
with DQ.
To this RMP adds another clarification to the concept of DQ:

"Dynamic Quality is not structured and yet it is not chaotic. 
It is value that cannot be contained by static patterns."

Ron:
I connect value with decision and decision with choice, therefore DQ,
those spur of the moment decisions of undefined betterness which
only percieved good is freedom, is what static patterns of Quality are
migrating towards.
RmP adds:

"even at the most fundamental level of the universe, static 
patterns of value and moral judgment are identical. The 'Laws of Nature' 
are moral laws."

Ron:
Pirsig then contends that
The term betterness is associated with moral judgement

"When inorganic patterns 
of reality create life the Metaphysics of Quality postulates that 
they've done so because it's 'better' and that this definition of 
'betterness' - this beginning response to Dynamic Quality - is an 
elementary unit of ethics upon which all right and wrong can be based."

"In general, given a choice of two courses to follow and all other 
things being equal, that choice which is more Dynamic, that is, at a 
higher level of evolution, is more moral. "

Ron:
Choice!  there is that word again. Moral choice. But Dan rhetorically dismisses 
all this
as throwing spagetti at the wall while he simply, doggedly and lazily clings to 
one
Quote, taken out of context, as representative of THE framework of THE MOQ.

Mary, by Dans contention, betterness, being static, is an illusion, it does not 
exist.

I feel this undercuts the Q in MOQ and is not a very accurate representation of 
Pirsigs
metaphysics.