[MD] Moral Responsibility without free will

[Ian Glendinning]

I agree with you dmb, but I don't think (can't believe) steve is not
saying "not linked" at all ...
Ian

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:36 PM, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:
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> Ian says he is "not getting what [Steve's] disagreement actually is [with dmb]":
>
> So let's come back to your [Steve's] statement "moral (responsibility) and free will are not linked (as a logical necessity)" ... I am at a loss to understand how you are separating free-will from responsibility (at any level, common sense, science, MoQ or metaphysical in general).
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> dmb says:
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> As I understand it, the nature of the disagreement is very simple. Steve says they are not linked and I say that his denial defies logic and overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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> I tried, unsuccessfully, to get Steve to put every other factor aside and just focus on the sheer logic of it. I thought if you looked at that single brick with fresh eyes he'd see for himself what I mean. And so I asked just one question.
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> If our actions are determined, then how can we be held responsible for those actions?
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> I think that Steve cannot answer that question because it is logically impossible. NOBODY can answer that question because you cannot be held responsible for actions over which you have no control. Who says you aren't responsible unless you have a choice? Mr. Pirsig, Mr. Logic, Mr. dictionary and her highness, Princess encyclopedia, that's who.
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> At one point, if memory serves, Steve even went so far as to say that Pirsig doesn't talk about moral responsibility and otherwise suggested it plays no important role in the MOQ. As far as I can figure, this odd stance is a result of trying to make the MOQ accommodate Sam Harris's neurological determinism wherein persons are as morally culpable as tornadoes.
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