[MD] Hot Stoves and What To Do About Them

[X Acto]

DmB said:
This is how Pirsig concludes chapter 12 and the discussion of free will and determinism. Please notice how the balance and compatibility between DQ and sq is being applied even to Pirsig's own thinking process. He's talking about an abstract idea as a Dynamic breakthrough. Unlike the hot stove example, this one is much, much harder to explain in terms involuntary reflex actions. The creations of a philosopher can't be so easily reduced to the physical or physiological structures supporting them.


Motorcycle repair and essay writing are the same way. DQ and sq are both necessary, the breakthroughs and the static latching are two phases in the experience. The work together and cannot right be conceived as separate compartments. All by itself, DQ is not freedom. It's just chaos. And static patterns all by themselves are not stable so much as they are dead. You have to know a lot of static stuff about engines to be an artful mechanic and yet you can follow all the rules of composition and grammar and still write a stupid, dull paper. You know what I mean? To get excellence, the DQ and the sq have to live together as partners.


 Ron:
And this is a great example of why RMP uses "Phaedrus" as a starting point, what makes a good
speech, what is quality in writing? Phaedrus, Socrates Phaedrus, is moved by a speech, so much
so he is convinced of the assertion Lysius makes about love. Socrates asserts that Lysius is making
the appearence of truth, because he is not basing his assertions on supported explanation, also he
can not be refuted and questioned because he is delivering a monolog and if he can not be questioned
how does one know if his assertions are true?  Socrates claim is that the art of persuasion begins
with a healthy dialog and to not let ourselves be persuaded or convinced of anything with out a sound
philosophical base of explanation.
Socrates states that an "art" of persuasion requires both and that those that persuade by telling
people what they want to hear are con artists, they appear wise.

Which is the criticism of the Sophist.

I've been reading Plato's Socratic dialogs all week and it is interesting to note how relevent they are
to our discussions here on the MD.
 
..